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[old] richisaac · Post by **[old] richisaac** » January 8th, 2005, 1:47 am

I am seriously considering a C2 and could use some input. I am 46 years old, about 5'11" and weight abou 190 lbs. I play basketball about twice a week and love it. I've done some running in the past and DON'T love it, and lifting weights bores me to tears. I have used the old C2 at the Y and I like it. I'd love to get below 180 lbs and be trimmer and tighter. If I keep playing basketball twice a week, and add 20 to 40 minutes of rowing 2 to 3 times a week, do you think I'll get the results I'm seeking? Without lifting weights? I am watching what I'm eating and doing ok there. Thanks. ... Rich

[old] jamesg · Post by **[old] jamesg** » January 8th, 2005, 2:26 am

The results you'll get will be splendid, but may not correspond to what you expect. So no illusions, which can only lead to delusions.

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » January 8th, 2005, 10:44 am

I assume you are playing full court basketball, which is great aerobic work. Although I occasionally played basketball, I played volleyball for years. In addition to building CV fitness, I think the C2 is seriously overlooked as cross training for jumping. I can't say it will make you jump higher, but I think it builds explosiveness and endurance in your core, and in the all the muscles you use for jumping. You can think of a 2k time trial as sort of 200 jumps in 7 minutes. You jump a lot more in volleyball then basketball, so maybe the C2 translates better there, but I found rowing really helped keep my legs fresh, and reduced the aftergame soreness, aches, or injuries related to jumping around for 2 hours.

[old] Mark Keating · Post by **[old] Mark Keating** » January 8th, 2005, 11:43 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (richisaac @ Jan 8 2005, 05:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> If I keep playing basketball twice a week, and add 20 to 40 minutes of rowing 2 to 3 times a week, do you think I'll get the results I'm seeking? Without lifting weights? I am watching what I'm eating and doing ok there. Thanks. ... Rich  </td></tr></table> Hi Rich; I think it will work well for you, but as James suggests, your goals have to be realistic. I have lost 15 to 20 lbs total body weight since April 04, trying to row 4 times per week at 30 to 60 minutes per session. I would be much further ahead if my work (farming) didn't interfere with regular training. I missed 6 weeks starting at the beginning of May then another 4 to 6 weeks in the Sept - Oct period. No weights at all. I am 36, 6'2", 174 lbs. Mark

[old] richisaac · Post by **[old] richisaac** » January 8th, 2005, 12:01 pm

Thank you, James, Michael, Mark! I appreciate your input. Yes, it is full court basketball, but fortunately in a 3/4 size gym so it doesn't quite kill us. I'm excited to hear that you think C2 might help my jumping, which is a huge part of the game for shooting, defense and rebounding. And thanks for the comment, james, about not focussing too much on a specific outcome that may not happen. The key is that this WILL get me to the next level of fitness as long as I DO IT! "There is no try... there is only do." ... Yoda

[old] richisaac · Post by **[old] richisaac** » January 8th, 2005, 12:10 pm

AND I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION... As I look at the rowers out there (am I allowed to ask this on a C2 website??), there seem to be some lower cost imitations of the C2, specifically the Fitness Quest Integrity 3000 and the Stamina ATS Rower, both Air Resistance machines. Those are available for $250 to $400, versus the C2 model D for $850 plus shipping. Have you had any experience with these that will help me feel comfortable with the additional investment? Also, it seems that C2 model C's are available used on eBay for about $600. That seems absurd... to spend $600 or $700 for a used one, when I can get my own new one for less than $1000, doesn't it? Also, are there any significant hidden fees that I'm not familiar with (other than shipping) that will drive the investment much higher? Thanks.

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » January 8th, 2005, 12:52 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (richisaac @ Jan 8 2005, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Also, it seems that C2 model C's are available used on eBay for about $600. That seems absurd... to spend $600 or $700 for a used one, when I can get my own new one for less than $1000, doesn't it? Also, are there any significant hidden fees that I'm not familiar with (other than shipping) that will drive the investment much higher?  </td></tr></table> The difference between the model C and the model D is that the D makes less noise, has a new handle, and the D comes with the PM3. The rowers are so durable, and so hard to break or really mess up, that I would certainly consider buying a used model C for the right price ($600 is an Ok price if in good condition). I think new the model D is $850. You want a model C with the PM2+, which offers a serial port for hooking up to your computer. Don't buy a C with the older PM2 (no computer hookup). The PM3 is USB. Noise can be an important, relevant concern (you can upgrade the model C with the D handle for $15, and for quieter components for less than $50). I would consider the added cost of rowpro ($100) if you have a computer that you could possibly use with your rowing machine. Rowpro offers online and offine racing, and a 3d display. So if you have a computer for it, a used model C and rowpro for $700 would be more fun than a new model D for $850 to me. Obviously you can also use rowpro with a model D (and the model C PM2+ would let you race online using the old, free, software called erow).

[old] Steve_R · Post by **[old] Steve_R** » January 8th, 2005, 1:36 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (richisaac @ Jan 8 2005, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>AND I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION... As I look at the rowers out there (am I allowed to ask this on a C2 website??), there seem to be some lower cost imitations of the C2, specifically the Fitness Quest Integrity 3000 and the Stamina ATS Rower, both Air Resistance machines. Those are available for $250 to $400, versus the C2 model D for $850 plus shipping. Have you had any experience with these that will help me feel comfortable with the additional investment? Also, it seems that C2 model C's are available used on eBay for about $600. That seems absurd... to spend $600 or $700 for a used one, when I can get my own new one for less than $1000, doesn't it? Also, are there any significant hidden fees that I'm not familiar with (other than shipping) that will drive the investment much higher? Thanks. </td></tr></table> I got my used C w/ PM2 for $500+shipping. That allowed me to upgrade to a PM3 and heart rate transmitter and reciever for less than a C2 D w/ PM3 (but not by much) Adding computer training software to the mix will bring me up to the full price of a C2 D. I agree that if you can find a reputable place to by a reasonably priced model C with a PM2+ you could save some money with little risk. A complete refit kit is only $40+shipping from C2 but you can buy individual pieces for even less money. I also looked at other brands but you can't beat the C2 quality, community, availability of replacement parts, support, customer service, etc. Do you want a training video or guide? Just call them and they will send it FREE!. Will Stamina do that? I love the fact that when I needed to replace the rollers, I just ordered them and now my seat is as good as new. This machine will last a long time. The investment is more than worth it if you are serious about using it. If you ever lose motivation, there is another C2 challenge right around the corner to get you back on the erg. Steve

[old] arakawa · Post by **[old] arakawa** » January 8th, 2005, 1:48 pm

I too am 5' 11", and, 12 months ago, weighed 190 lbs. My exercise consisted of playing volleyball (all positions, but primarily as a setter) and lifting weights (about ten hours a week). However, with my son getting older (he's now two) and wanting to spend more time with me, I decided to drop volleyball altogether (after doing it for 12 years) and cut back my lifting (the plan was to lift only on weekends). I went to the 2004 CRASH-B as a spectator, and resolved then to prepare for the 2005 CRASH-B. I dropped to 165 lbs by August 2004 and trimmed nearly a minute off my 2k in ten month (it's easier to improve that much when you were wicked slow to start with). I can't speak about whether the erg has helped or hurt my vertical, but I can't believe I used to try to jump with the equivalent of my son's weight added to my current weight. I know my overall health has improved significantly (blood pressure and cholesterol in addition to weight) along with my cardiovascular conditioning. Basketball emphasizes cardiovascular conditioning a great deal - indoor rowing can help. As for improving vertical - if you continue to jump and play basketball while reducing your weight via rowing, I like your chances for improving your vertical (imagine how much worse your vertical would be if you strapped a 30 pound backpack on). As for why a Model C costs about $600 on eBay when you could get a new one for $850 plus shipping and handling, I'd say that this high resale value comes from the inherent quality of the C2 ergs and the demand for them (sort of like how you can expect to pay $17.5k for a used 2003 Honda Accord LX sedan with 30k miles when a new 2005 Honda Accord LX sedan costs less than $20k).

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » January 8th, 2005, 3:17 pm

michaelb What a high quality, succint and helpful post. John

[old] richisaac · Post by **[old] richisaac** » January 15th, 2005, 9:33 pm

Well, I'm in. I picked up my new Concept 2 Model D today. 5000m in 25:40... pretty slow, huh.

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » January 15th, 2005, 9:49 pm

Good for you Rich. Don't worry about the times. They will improve, give it time. You will not regret your investment for one moment. Except when you are wondering how a human body can take so much punishment and keep going afer a hard 2k row Most importantly, log your times, map your improvements, take part in the challenges, always make it enjoyable and HAVE FUN !

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » January 15th, 2005, 11:38 pm

Hi Rich, I'm sure you made a good choice with the C2. The best part about C2, which no one mentioned, is this site! C2 runs all kinds of fun challenges and they really care about people using their machines and getting better. The on line ranking adds so much fun to the whole thing, never mind the T shirts and stuff you can win for rowing different distances. Enjoy! Carla

[old] John Hendrie · Post by **[old] John Hendrie** » January 16th, 2005, 12:22 pm

And by all means, log all your data on the C2 site. It's a great way to compare with the rest of the world and a great incentive. john

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » January 16th, 2005, 1:35 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (richisaac @ Jan 16 2005, 03:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>5000m in 25:40... pretty slow, huh. </td></tr></table> That is about as fast as I did it the first time. Just give it a few more tries and you will improve.

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