Strength training?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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french99
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Strength training?

Post by french99 » November 5th, 2013, 3:45 am

I'm not much of a rower myself, but one of my friends (who is a rower) challenged me to a 500m race in a month on an erg. I've used indoor rowers before in the gym and have quite good technique, but I think he probably has more strength and raw power than I do. I'd really like to smash him in a month, so is there anything you guys can suggest for me to do to train for the race? Any good power building workouts, ideally on an erg? It's only 500m, so cardio probably isn't much of an issue compared to a 6k. I'm healthy and fit, but I just think I don't have enough strength.

Thanks in advance! :)

jamesg
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Re: Strength training?

Post by jamesg » November 5th, 2013, 7:11 am

Do a 500 test now, then tell us all about it: your weight, height, age, sex; and then rating, Watts, effects on you, planned strategy, what actually happened, time.
I learn from mistakes, but to do this, have to make them first, so the sooner the better. In other words, everything we do is an experiment and provides info to work on.
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2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week. Fading fast.

ArmandoChavezUNC
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Re: Strength training?

Post by ArmandoChavezUNC » November 5th, 2013, 1:03 pm

Do high damper/drag factor workouts on the erg. Do repetitions of 500m with rest. You can do reps of 250 m with rest. You should probably also do longer intervals, like 750s or even 1000s.

Just make sure you always warm-up properly, otherwise you could very easily hurt your back. You could do squats/deadlifts/rows in the gym, those will help too.
PBs: 2k 6:09.0 (2020), 6k 19:38.9 (2020), 10k 33:55.5 (2019), 60' 17,014m (2018), HM 1:13:27.5 (2019)

Old PBs: LP 1:09.9 (~2010), 100m 16.1 (~2010), 500m 1:26.7 (~2010), 1k 3:07.0 (~2010)

JimCrawford
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Re: Strength training?

Post by JimCrawford » November 5th, 2013, 8:07 pm

You say that cardio won't be a problem but you'll be functioning in the anaerobic range. There's a big difference between functioning at 80% and at 95%. I come from a strength background and use the Erg for conditioning. Though not a coach... I'd find your max watts then see how long you can hold 92% of that max. If you can last near two minutes then next time try 95%. If you fall way short then drop to 90%. You need to adapt to near max output for almost two minutes. A really good warm up is a must.
For strength try, "Wendler's 5/3/1" program. It runs on a four week cycle which is just right for your race.
You might like an article at T-Nation by Chris Shugart on Predator Conditioning.
www.T-nation.com/training/predator-conditioning

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hjs
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Re: Strength training?

Post by hjs » November 6th, 2013, 4:45 am

JimCrawford wrote:You say that cardio won't be a problem but you'll be functioning in the anaerobic range. There's a big difference between functioning at 80% and at 95%. I come from a strength background and use the Erg for conditioning. Though not a coach... I'd find your max watts then see how long you can hold 92% of that max. If you can last near two minutes then next time try 95%. If you fall way short then drop to 90%. You need to adapt to near max output for almost two minutes. A really good warm up is a must.
For strength try, "Wendler's 5/3/1" program. It runs on a four week cycle which is just right for your race.
You might like an article at T-Nation by Chris Shugart on Predator Conditioning.
http://www.T-nation.com/training/predator-conditioning
If you can hold 92% of your max for 2 minutes you are a machine. Absolute impossible.
For a short periode conditioning yourself to the rowing motion will do you good.
After a warm up do some prints in the 200/350 region. Take long ish breaks. 1500 meter in total is plenty. After this wait 5 minutes and one 1k erg.
This will get you adjusted to the erg and mke you ready for a good 500.
Rate around 40/45 ish for the sprints. Below 35 for the one k s.

ArmandoChavezUNC
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Re: Strength training?

Post by ArmandoChavezUNC » November 6th, 2013, 9:11 am

Tnation? Really?

The articles on that website are written by people with 0 actual knowledge.
PBs: 2k 6:09.0 (2020), 6k 19:38.9 (2020), 10k 33:55.5 (2019), 60' 17,014m (2018), HM 1:13:27.5 (2019)

Old PBs: LP 1:09.9 (~2010), 100m 16.1 (~2010), 500m 1:26.7 (~2010), 1k 3:07.0 (~2010)

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dwalk
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Re: Strength training?

Post by dwalk » November 6th, 2013, 12:03 pm

Charles Staley, Tony Gentilcore, and many others on T-Nation know their stuff very well. It may not pertain to rowing, but some of those people who know "nothing" train some of the top athletes in the world in other sports.
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PB's 100-14.2(2017) 500 1:21.8(2016) 2k 6:29(2015)

JimCrawford
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Re: Strength training?

Post by JimCrawford » November 7th, 2013, 6:06 pm

@ hjs my bad. The %'s I was using I got from our Spinning instructor and that was based on HR not watts
What I wanted the OP to see was that it isn't only strength that gets you though a 500. An exercise physiologist I talked to said that the limiting factor isn't the muscular system but gas exchange.

@ Armando Who do you read for strength training advice? I'm always looking for the next best thing.

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hjs
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Re: Strength training?

Post by hjs » November 8th, 2013, 4:33 am

JimCrawford wrote:@ hjs my bad. The %'s I was using I got from our Spinning instructor and that was based on HR not watts
What I wanted the OP to see was that it isn't only strength that gets you though a 500. An exercise physiologist I talked to said that the limiting factor isn't the muscular system but gas exchange.

@ Armando Who do you read for strength training advice? I'm always looking for the next best thing.
Aha

After roughly 20/30 seconds in any sport the anaerobic system has to take over. During a 500 the aerobic system does do om ofcourse, but not that much.
To be good at a 500 you need to strong, fast (rate high efficiently) and have aerobic system working very well.

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mikvan52
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Re: Strength training?

Post by mikvan52 » November 8th, 2013, 9:08 am

Let's see:
The question: One Month... build strength for maxing out at 500m..

I agree with hjs... you need a little more than just raw strength.

#1: coordination.... Those who don't haven't erged that much lose some of the wattage already created because they are driving the seat rather than the handle/chain connection. To improve this shortcoming in a month's time should be the biggest goal.
Such an improvement will help you with the last 150 meters when everything tends to turn to jelly. :D

If the goal is just "my best score" rather than "my best score while rowing well"... I think I'd work on rowing at high rate 3-5 by 500m at 40+ spm /7' rests twice a week but not maxing out... just to get the feel of what's required for a max test... I'd also do leg presses once or twice a week... 3 sets of 12 (you choose the weight that is difficult but limit it to what you can push smoothly and uniformly throughout the "leg drive")

a key, of course, is to not wear yourself out during the month...

Stay off the erg and weights the day before the "main event" :idea: :?:
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french99
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Re: Strength training?

Post by french99 » November 9th, 2013, 4:02 am

Thanks so much for all the suggestions, I have tried some of them already and have noticed a difference. I guess doing anything on the erg will be beneficial really, but with these workouts I've got a better idea of what I should do specifically for training.

CatBrother
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Re: Strength training?

Post by CatBrother » November 18th, 2013, 7:20 pm

I'm a dragon boater, but just (tried to) revive the Wolverine Plan thread on this very subject, but I have about 3 months to train before time trials, where sub-2 mins is pretty sporty.
I'd second the recommendation for deadlifts, along with 1-arm rows and 1-arm bench press. You ramp up for 3 weeks, taper the fourth. Last hard strength work is 5 days from the event, max.
I look forward to further posts in this thread!

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Re: Strength training?

Post by efagerho » November 28th, 2013, 9:51 am

If you go beyond the capacity of the aerobic system, it's not going to magically switch off. The aerobic system will still work at full power, but the anaerobic system starts helping out. This is why improving aerobic fitness will help on even a short 1 minute sprint. I would guess that a 500m sprint is still heavily dominated by the aerobic system in terms of energy produced. It's just that having less aerobic power in the tank will cause you to crash during the last 100m or so. I remember reading some papers about the 400m sprint being dominated by the aerobic system, even though one might suspect otherwise.

Regarding the 500m sprint, I can deadlift 200kg, so I have plenty of pulling power. I can usually keep up a very fast pace for about 350m and then I will crash. The aerobic system is certainly my weakest point in addition to not having done much rowing, so my muscles are not primed for the exercise. You should probably figure out how much power you can produce, use that to compute your optimal 500m potential given current strength and then figure out what your weaknesses are and train based on that, since you are short on time.

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