[supplements] L-glutamine

[[old] Steve_R]

Jim, I thought is was best to start a new topic. It is probably best to ask about what you want to achieve and get recommendations but I thought I would give my take on a good (I would consider fundamental) supplement.<br /><br />One of the best supplements I have for working out is glutamine. It helps me with DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness), prevention of overtraining, recovery, etc. I usually supplement 4 grams per day and since taking extra glutamine, I have been able to train up to 5 days per week with no muscle soreness regardless of interval training, distance, etc.<br /><br />Do others use glutamine to help their workouts?<br /><br />Steve

[[old] DIESEL]

<!--QuoteBegin-Steve_R+May 14 2005, 10:29 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Steve_R @ May 14 2005, 10:29 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Jim, I thought is was best to start a new topic.  It is probably best to ask about what you want to achieve and get recommendations but I thought I would give my take on a good (I would consider fundamental) supplement.<br /><br />One of the best supplements I have for working out is glutamine.  It helps me with DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness), prevention of overtraining, recovery, etc.  I usually supplement 4 grams per day and since taking extra glutamine, I have been able to train up to 5 days per week with no muscle soreness regardless of interval training, distance, etc.<br /><br />Do others use glutamine to help their workouts?<br /><br />Steve <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Are you use it's the glutamine or more your body's adaptation to the workout routine?<br /><br />4g of glutamine per day is a really small dose, and probably not enough to do the things you are saying. <br /><br />20g is more in tune w/ what most people I know take. 10g post-workout, 10g at night before bed. I've heard conflicting stuff about this supplement. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up in the 'discarded' supplement bin like Boron, HMB, and Pyruvate. <br />

[[old] Steve_R]

Most of the research that I have read indicate that 1.5-2g pre/post workout is sufficient for increasing growth hormone levels, helping with protecting muscle from breakdown, increase immune response, as well as helping repair muscle and glutamine stores.<br /><br />For someone who lifts, not just endurance training, I would recommend a higher dose - somewhere between 5-10g pre/post depending on the amount of activity. There is a lot more muscle breakdown in weight training. Also, the amount is just to supplement that already added amount of protein that I take in each day. My total glutamine intake daily is probably around 15g/day when you include all other protein intake. Also, I was taking around 8g/day glutamine when I was losing weight to allow me to recover better with fewer calories.<br /><br />Some people don't tolerate really high amounts of glutamine (upset stomach) so I would start lower and see if you feel that you need more.<br /><br />Steve

[[old] Roland Baltutis]

I'm a great advocate of taking L-Glutamine. In fact as far as power endurance training goes, I believe it's the most important supplement you can take. A well balanced diet will not provide sufficient L-Glutamine for a power endurance athlete's needs. It helps you in so many ways.<br /><br />L-Glutamine is so important for muscle recovery and growth. It will also help your body against the effects of over-training. Power endurance training breaks down your immune system and makes you succumb to sickness more frequently. L-Glutamine is more effective in boosting your immune system than all the fad herbs and anti-oxidant supplements around at the moment.<br /><br />I've been taking it, as a single 100% pure pharmaceutical grade product, for about a year and noticed a vast improvement in my ability to recover from training. Now into my 40s, I no longer wake up stiff and sore from the previous days hard workout. I have also noticed a great improvement in my resistance to sickness. Every year, for as long as I can remember, I would always pick up a nuisance, difficult to shake, cold in April. This is the first year in ages that this hasn't happened. Yet other members of my family, that don't take the supplement, have been sick.<br /><br />Studies on athletes taking just 2g of L-Glutamine, before and after workouts, have confirmed the above mentioned benefits. However, sports nutritionists that I have consulted have recommended between 10g to 15g per day (but not to exceed 15g).<br /><br />Other supplements worth trying are more recently available forms of Creatine such as Creatine Pyruvate (a more beneficial form of creatine for endurance athletes rather than weight lifters) and a very different Creatine Ethyl Ester (great for "non-responders", no loading required, fat soluble making more creatine get to target cells). <br /><br />As always, there will be sceptics doubting L-Gutamine's benefits and others who will continue to eat their peanut-butter on bread without giving anything else a thought. It's their loss and our gain.<br /><br />Roland Baltutis

[[old] Jim Barry]

I bought L-glutamine today and will give it a try. I'm heading into a summer where I'm planning to be sustaining a lot of training and push to new levels. Its not a lot of training really, but I think I'll be able to pick up on the improved recovery response (If it exists, or works for me). I'll also be watching for an improved immunity to colds. I typically get one right when I'm at my best and it is quite frustrating. <br /><br />Thanks for the advice.<br /><br /><br />--Jim<br /><br />

[[old] TomR/the elder]

The people who definitely benefit from l-glutamine and other supplements are the manufacturers have muscled up their bank accounts touting the benefits of all many of unproven stuff. I'd be interested to see reputable studies (peer-reviewed, for ex) about l-glutamine. <br /><br />Tom

[[old] Roland Baltutis]

<!--QuoteBegin-TomR/the elder+May 22 2005, 08:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ May 22 2005, 08:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The people who definitely benefit from l-glutamine and other supplements are the manufacturers have muscled up their bank accounts touting the benefits of all many of unproven stuff. I'd be interested to see reputable studies (peer-reviewed, for ex) about l-glutamine. <br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Tom,<br /> Don't be such a sceptic. There are plenty of published studies proving that L-Glutamine and Creatine supplementation being of benefit to athletes. It's a matter of doing the research then trying the supplement yourself. One particular publication "Peak Performance", which is in no way connected to any manufacturers, nor does it carry any advertising, is an excellent reference point. It specializes in sports science studies.<br /><br />Don't knock something Tom unless you have tried it first. Particularily when there are sports science studies backing it. Don't confuse supplements such as L-Glutamine with others. There are many herbal products out there being promoted by manufacturers making unproven claims. Many of them sound promising, because the Chinese have used them for hundreds of years, but when you look for proven scientific studies, they are very hard to find. When it comes to supplements let us not generalize. You need to be specific because some of them do work.<br /><br />Roland Baltutis<br /><br />

[[old] TomR/the elder]

Roland, <br /><br />I am a skeptic for the reasons you cite in your second paragraph. What's interesting and unfortunate is that if you enter l-glutamine in a Google search, what you get a people trying to sell you stuff, not independent information.<br /><br />As I said in my first reply, I'd be interested in seeing some studies and would be grateful if you could point me to a couple. <br /><br />I'll take a look at the Peak Performance site.<br /><br />Thanx.<br /><br />Tom

[[old] Exrook]

<!--QuoteBegin-TomR/the elder+May 23 2005, 09:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ May 23 2005, 09:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Roland, <br /><br />I am a skeptic for the reasons you cite in your second paragraph. What's interesting and unfortunate is that if you enter l-glutamine in a Google search, what you get a people trying to sell you stuff, not independent information.<br /><br />As I said in my first reply, I'd be interested in seeing some studies and would be grateful if you could point me to a couple. <br /><br />I'll take a look at the Peak Performance site.<br /><br />Thanx.<br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Here's one from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition titled "Glutamine: commercially essential or conditionally essential? A critical appraisal of the human data"<br /><br /><a href='http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/74/1/25' target='_blank'>http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/74/1/25</a><br /><br />It has a host of other studies referenced, many with links to abstracts.

[[old] TomR/the elder]

<a href='http://www.humankinetics.com/sdsu/conte ... cfm?sid=18' target='_blank'>http://www.humankinetics.com/sdsu/conte ... =18</a><br /><br />less than a ringing endorsement.<br /><br />Tom

[[old] michael]

<!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+May 22 2005, 11:11 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ May 22 2005, 11:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are many herbal products out there being promoted by manufacturers making unproven claims. Many of them sound promising, because the Chinese have used them for hundreds of years, but when you look for proven scientific studies, they are very hard to find. When it comes to supplements let us not generalize. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You just did generalize when it comes to Chinese remedies. In my mind, at least, if herbal food sources have been used for "hundreds of years" to boost say, stamina and endurance there's probably good reason for it. Eleutherococcus senticosus (Siberian ginseng), Schizandra chinensis and Panax ginseng are three that come to mind. There is a ton of scientific literature proving their mettle, particularly in studies conducted in Japan, Germany, Russia and Korea. <br /><br />Certainly there are many dubious herbal products out there, I agree but they are very likely the ones that have neither actually been used for centuries, are "watered down", heavily processed versions of the real thing, or never actually rated high in traditional Asian medicine to begin with. The key here is to not to allow yourself, as you suggested, to be taken in by a "manufacturer's unproven claim". That's precisely why I generally refrain from listening to some 20 year old pushing a bottle of pills at GNC, and instead try to educate myself by reading and then purchasing the whole, unadulterated, non-commodified product.

[[old] jamesg]

Surely the main point of exercising is to stay fit and possibly healthy. So if we need or believe we need anything else on a systematic basis to stay fit and healthy, evidently exercise is not working. To take some additive to do more of the same would then seem absurd.<br /><br />On the other hand if we keep fit to race, then taking supplements will be considered as cheating by those who don't take them.<br /><br />Whether it's suicidal or not, only time can tell, and all praise to those who wish to try at the risk of their own life, like Jenner. I reckon that at best (as we are emotional animals) we can hope for some feel good now, with no long term problems (and life can be very long), but this may seem too optimistic for sceptics.

[[old] BobD]

I read both of the referenced studies and neither could find any advantage to taking the stuff for muscle building or soreness. <br /><br />PS: I have a Bachelor's Degree in Biological Sciences.

[[old] Steve_R]

To be sure, there are differing conclusions of studies with regard to glutamine supplementation. There are other abstracts to point to the efficacy of glutamine. It is too simple to say that unless everyone agrees it must not work.<br /><br />We can look to some medicines that seem to work in certain circumstances but not others. Some people say that ibuprofen doesn't work but acetominophen does work for them. Would anyone argue about the efficacy of certain pain relievers? <br /><br /><a href='http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/4-4/glutamine.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/4-4/g ... pdf</a><br /><a href='http://www.jtrauma.com/pt/re/jtrauma/fu ... -00003.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.jtrauma.com/pt/re/jtrauma/fu ... htm</a><br /><a href='http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jjhulmi/Manninen14.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jjhulmi/Manninen14.pdf</a><br /><br />Steve

[[old] BobD]

The Thorne study does not support a claim of increasing atheletic performance or reducíng muscle soreness. <br /><br />I would not trust Romanian studies regarding protein or any other supplements as they pioneered the use of steroids and it was policy to give their girl gymnasts hormones to prevent them from maturing. And these people are still in business today.