Type 2 Diabetes

[[old] gaffano]

Anyone out there utilizing rowing, etc to prevent or treat type 2 diabetes? My father has it, and I have been maintaining a good lifestyle (diet, excercise, weight control) to prevent for myself. He was 50 pounds over-weight, smoked, drank, never excercised when he got diabetes. Been successful so far (male 33). I would be interested in learning other's situations......thanks in advance....

[[old] Lisa]

<!--QuoteBegin-gaffano+Mar 15 2005, 06:21 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gaffano @ Mar 15 2005, 06:21 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone out there utilizing rowing, etc to prevent or treat type 2 diabetes? My father has it, and I have been maintaining a good lifestyle (diet, excercise, weight control) to prevent for myself. He was 50 pounds over-weight, smoked, drank, never excercised when he got diabetes. Been successful so far (male 33). I would be interested in learning other's situations......thanks in advance.... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Interesting - I logged on to post on this topic and saw your post I am also trying to prevent type 2 diabetes. I'm still being tested for it - but if I'm not yet diabetic I'm close to it. I've had some very high readings lately.<br /><br />So I'm really hoping too that the exercise will help. My problem is that if I push very hard on the erg then my blood sugar drops 50 points (American measurement) and is then way too low. It's frustrating. I don't know how to exercise and keep my blood sugar in a good range. I hope someone sees this and can give me some suggestions. <br /><br />As for how well this works, I've been rowing for nearly 3 months. I have not lost any weight at all. But I do know that exercise is excellent for helping insulin resistance which is a prediabetic condition. I am not very overweight (could stand to lose 20 lbs) so it is frustrating that I'm even dealing with this problem. I did some research on diabetes studies and found that more intesnse exercise would be better for preventing type II diabetes than easy exercise like walking. So that's why I'm on the rower - don't want to have to shoot myself up with insulin a few years down the road. I try to do 30-35 minutes 4-5 times a week (any more than that and my blood sugar drops too low) and I also try to walk at least 30 minutes every day at work.<br /><br />One thing I would suggest is to get yourself a glucose monitor and test yourself several times to see how well controlled your blood glucose is and how different foods cause you to respond. I have found certain foods that I just cannot eat because even small amounts sends my blood sugar skyrocketing. Knowing how food affects you can really help to keep the numbers from getting too high. <br /><br />Lastly, hopefully this will be encouraging - diet and exercise is more effective at preventing type II diabetes than the best medicaitons that are currently out there. Do a search on google and you'll find a ton of info on it. <br /><br />Lisa

[[old] gaffano]

Lisa...I was wondering if you could provide some additional information like your age, your health history (smoking, cholesterol, etc) family health history, etc.<br /><br />My dad has T2 diabetes, but he never took care of himeself, smoking, drinking, overweight. he also has coronary issues: bypass and valve replacement. He has been ill lately, and the T2 diabete makes his condition much worse.<br /><br />I am 33 M, and have been excercising frequently for the last 10 years. I have never smoked, and try to eat a good diet. I have inherited my dad's my dad's high cholesterol (normal total 230s, LDL 165, HDl 45) I tried diet but #s really did not drop to "safe" levels. So i take 10mg of Lipitor reluctantly, and have good #s now.<br /><br />However, witnessing first hand my fathers's sufferings, I want to do whatever i can to prevent T2 diabetes. I have read some places that it is more of a lifestyle created problem, and that you do not automatically inherit it. Other places say you have a high chance of inheriting. i just do not know what is facts..<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] Mel Harbour]

I'm hardly qualified to give an answer myself, but an interesting article you might look up is entitled 'Olympic Diabetes' in the journal Clinical Medicine published by the Royal College of Physicians I think. Article was published in July 2003.<br /><br />It discusses some of the issues associated with training with diabetes in an Olympic rower with diabetes (three guesses which one...).<br /><br />Mel

[[old] DIESEL]

Lisa: <br /><br />some questions <br /><br />1. do you track how many calories you eat per day? If you are not losing weight - you are probably eating more calories than you burn. <br /><br />OR <br /><br />You have added muscle mass from the rowing. Have you had your bodyfat tested recently? That number (and how you look in the mirror) is what you should be going by, not what the scale says. Remember muscle weighs a lot more than fat, fat just takes up more space. <br /><br />2. do you lift weights - ideally you should try and incorporate 2x / week resistance training as an adjunct to your rowing. It will help with the fat loss. <br /><br />3. what kinds of food are you eating every day? It sounds like a diet higher in protein, with moderate carbs (no more than 250g/ day), and low to moderate fat would work wonders for you. Especially if have concerns about diabetes. <br /><br />A suggestion: <br /><br />If you feel that your blood sugar level drops while exercising (which is only logical b/c you are burning glycogen as your primary fuel source, then stored bodyfat) - you could try to bring a liquid mixture of 1 part grape juice and 2 parts water and sip on that throughout your piece. <br /><br />You could also make sure you are getting a steady supply of slow-burning carbs throughout the day leading up to your workout. You shouldn't starve yourself in an attempt to lose weight throughout the day, and then jump on the erg for a 45 minute piece. Your body is going to rebel against that sort of treatment and you'll feel like crap.<br /><br />Try this: About 90 minutes-2 hours before your piece. <br /><br />Grab a blender - get a scoop of protein powder, about 1/3-1/2 cup of natural uncooked oats, 4oz. of your favorite fruit juice (ideally natural grape juice) (you can substitute the fruit juice for water and a tablespoon of honey), 4 oz. of water, some frozen berries/cherries, and (optional) some crushed ice. blend and drink. Should give you steady energy and the oatmeal will insure that you don't run out of gas and get woozy (b/c low blood sugar) 30 min. into your piece. <br /><br />Try it, and let me know if it works for you. <br /><br />good luck, <br />D

[[old] gaffano]

Thanks Diesel for your always informative and helpful input. One point...what if you do cardio shortly after you awake....you would not have 90 minutes to prepare such a meal...any suggestions in that case?

[[old] DIESEL]

Just don't do it on an empty stomach. I have no idea how that myth became so prevalent. It's a bad practice. Remember that practice was made famous by bodybuilders getting into that ultra low bodyfat "contest condition" - what they don't tell you is that they were jacked to the gills with steroids - so comparatively, the damage (in terms of muscle catabolism) they suffer is minimal.<br /><br />Try that (empty stomach cardio 1st thing in the morning) for awhile if you are clean - you are going to feel like crap and you are going to lose a ton of muscle mass. <br /><br />Here's what I do when I have to work out first thing in the morning: <br /><br />1 scoop protein powder + 8OZ. of juice. Drink it. <br /><br />The sugar in the juice stabilizes your blood sugar after a night of fasting - and the protein staves off muscle catabolism. It's liquid, so it won't give you an upset stomach when you row. What would happen if you did cardio on an empty stomach is that your body will begin to eat it's muscle protein for fuel first, then tap into bodyfat stores. Remember the body always takes the path of least resistance first - it will burn the most readily available source of energy before switching to the reserves. <br /><br />When you consider that it takes 4 cals for the body to metabolize muscle proteins vs. the 9 calories it takes to metabolize bodyfat - you can see why the body will first attack the muscle, then at some point in the workout switch over to bodyfat. <br /><br />Remember that the secret to ultimate leanness and optimum metabolism is to preserve as much lean tissue as possible while losing weight. The best way to do this is by cutting your carb intake (but not too low - about 1g-1.2g/# of body weight depending on insulin sensitivity) upping your protein (to preserve lean tissue) and cutting fat - (to force the body to burn stored bodyfat while at rest). <br /><br />Hope that helps,<br />D <br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] Lisa]

<!--QuoteBegin-gaffano+Mar 18 2005, 08:52 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gaffano @ Mar 18 2005, 08:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lisa...I was wondering if you could provide some additional information like your age, your health history (smoking, cholesterol, etc) family health history, etc.<br /><br />My dad has T2 diabetes, but he never took care of himeself, smoking, drinking, overweight. he also has coronary issues: bypass and valve replacement.  He has been ill lately, and the T2 diabete makes his condition much worse.<br /><br />I am 33 M, and have been excercising frequently for the last 10 years. I have never smoked, and try to eat a good diet. I have inherited my dad's my dad's high cholesterol (normal total 230s, LDL 165, HDl 45) I tried diet but #s really did not drop to "safe" levels. So i take 10mg of Lipitor reluctantly, and have good #s now.<br /><br />However, witnessing first hand my fathers's sufferings, I want to do whatever i can to prevent T2 diabetes. I have read some places that it is more of a lifestyle created problem, and that you do not automatically inherit it. Other places say you have a high chance of inheriting. i just do not know what is facts.. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I am 43. My health history is pretty good although I've known I've been at high risk for Type II diabetes for a number of years (insulin resistant). I have never smoked. My exercise has been sporadic in the past but I am taking it very seriously now. My cholesterol dropped from 230 to 184 with diet and exercise. My HDL is 95 and my LDL is 70 (down from 120).<br /><br />I actually dropped my cholesterol by going on a lowish carb diet (not Atkins). I am trying to cut out all refined foods and every bit of trans-fat. I also cut out rice, potatos, corn and real starchy foods. I try to make my meals mostly protein, vegetables, one piece of fruit a day. I eat a lot of eggs and cheese. I have found low glycemic index foods to use in place of bread and pasta. For example, hummous and various beans in small amounts. I try to stay well under 100 gm of carbs a day. If I do that and space them out then I can keep my blood sugar under pretty good control. I was surprised to find that with my high fat diet my cholesterol had dropped and the HDL went up while the LDL went down. I eat a lot of saturated fat but I also eat a lot of Omega-3 fat.<br /><br />When I read your posts, Gaffano, it strikes me that you are doing everything you can to prevent diabetes down the road. Yes, a family history does give you a high chance of getting it yourself, but you have an excellent chance of preventing it or delaying it by lifestyle. It is not at all inevitable you will get diabetes. If you keep your weight down and your exercise up, I bet you'll do fine. Why not talk to a doctor and get your fasting blood sugar, a glucose tolerance test and your insulin levels checked to see where you stand? With a family history, you may want to do this every 6-12 months.<br /><br />Sure, your cholesterol is high but keep it in perspective. It is correlated to heart disease but it is not a definite marker for heart disease. It's a piece of the picture. It would be good to get it down if you can, but it does not mean that you are headed for trouble necessarily - just that you're more likely to have heart disease. I would relax and do some research to find alternative ways to lower your cholesterol. Perhaps a low glycemic index diet, cutting back carbs slightly, adding in Omega-3 fats and foods known to lower cholesterol such as oatmeal (NOT the instant kind - the slow cooking oats). <br /><br />Your father is in the trouble he's in because he's abused his body. It's not at all inevitable that you will go through his health problems. Seriously I would make an appointment with an endocrinologist since you seem very concerned (rightly so) about this and let them give you solid information on where you stand based on lab results. You may not be in as bad a situation as you think. I would pat yourself on the back for the lifestyle you have and the effort you're making and not worry too much about the things you can't change (like family history). <br /><br />Lisa

[[old] Lisa]

<!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Mar 18 2005, 10:02 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Mar 18 2005, 10:02 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lisa: <br /><br />some questions <br /><br />1.  do you track how many calories you eat per day?  If you are not losing weight - you are probably eating more calories than you burn.  <br /><br />OR  <br /><br />You have added muscle mass from the rowing.  Have you had your bodyfat tested recently?  That number (and how you look in the mirror) is what you should be going by, not what the scale says.  Remember muscle weighs a lot more than fat, fat just takes up more space.  <br /><br />2.  do you lift weights - ideally you should try and incorporate 2x / week resistance training as an adjunct to your rowing.  It will help with the fat loss. <br /><br />3.  what kinds of food are you eating every day?  It sounds like a diet higher in protein, with moderate carbs (no more than 250g/ day), and low to moderate fat would work wonders for you.  Especially if have concerns about diabetes. <br /><br />A suggestion: <br /><br />If you feel that your blood sugar level drops while exercising (which is only logical b/c you are burning glycogen as your primary fuel source, then stored bodyfat) - you could try to bring a liquid mixture of 1 part grape juice and 2 parts water and sip on that throughout your piece. <br /><br />You could also make sure you are getting a steady supply of slow-burning carbs throughout the day leading up to your workout.  You shouldn't starve yourself in an attempt to lose weight throughout the day, and then jump on the erg for a 45 minute piece.  Your body is going to rebel against that sort of treatment and you'll feel like crap.<br /><br />Try this:  About 90 minutes-2 hours before your piece.  <br /><br />Grab a blender - get a scoop of protein powder, about 1/3-1/2 cup of natural uncooked oats, 4oz. of your favorite fruit juice (ideally natural grape juice) (you can substitute the fruit juice for water and a tablespoon of honey),  4 oz. of water,  some frozen berries/cherries, and (optional) some crushed ice.  blend and drink.  Should give you steady energy and the oatmeal will insure that you don't run out of gas and get woozy (b/c low blood sugar) 30 min. into your piece. <br /><br />Try it, and let me know if it works for you. <br /><br />good luck, <br />D <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />1. Yes, I stay in the 1800-2000 range and burn off about 300-350 calories 5-6 days a week rowing.<br /><br />2. Lifting weight is an excellent suggestion and I've been meaning to do this. I really need to get serious about adding it to my routine. I keep saying I don't have time because of my job, but the fact is if I don't have my health the job doesn't matter much.<br /><br />3. I am actually eating a lowish carb diet (under 100 gms a day) that is fairly high in "good" fats and somewhat high in protein and bad fats. If I go over 100 gms a day in carbs my blood sugar sky rockets. Ironically, switching to this diet has improved my cholesterol and my blood glucose. <br /><br />I like your suggestion of the drink although with the way I respond I'd have to eat it about 30 minutes before I exercise. <br /><br />I am still puzzled why I drop so low when exercising. I wonder if this means that I only burn glycogen and don't switch to burning fat. It is VERY frustrating to me because I have to row very slowly. If I go below 2:50/500 m. I get in trouble. That is like a slow jog/fast walk. I am capable of going much faster but I can't do it and keep up my blood sugar. <br /><br />Thanks for the help Diesel!<br />

[[old] Lisa]

<!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Mar 18 2005, 11:55 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Mar 18 2005, 11:55 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Try that (empty stomach cardio 1st thing in the morning)  for awhile if you are clean - you are going to feel like crap and you are going to lose a ton of muscle mass. <br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I agree with one exception. Diabetics often have high blood glucose in the morning on awakening. Exercise is a good way to get that down. A prediabetic who is already showing this climb in fasting blood glucose would also fall in this category. For everyone else, it does sound pretty brutal to exercise that intensely without some fuel in the body.<br /><br />Lisa<br />

[[old] DIESEL]

<!--QuoteBegin-Lisa+Mar 18 2005, 11:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lisa @ Mar 18 2005, 11:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /><br /><br />I am still puzzled why I drop so low when exercising. I wonder if this means that I only burn glycogen and don't switch to burning fat. It is VERY frustrating to me because I have to row very slowly. If I go below 2:50/500 m. I get in trouble. That is like a slow jog/fast walk. I am capable of going much faster but I can't do it and keep up my blood sugar. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I think it's safe to say we have identified the problem. Here's my theory. Rowing is just too intense to do it on only 100g of carbs a day. Your low blood sugar is simply because your body is grasping for glycogen to power the workout, but after a while it just isn't there - and given your insulin sensitivity - once that glycogen is gone - your blood sugar plummets - and your body begins to shut down. <br /><br />I'm afraid I can't suggest anything hard and fast - it's something you have to experiment with. I think the drink idea might help - or you could try supplementing the 100g of carbs you eat with some extra oatmeal before the workout - hopefully it would be enough and not spike your blood sugar. However, that you have to determine for yourself via experimentation. <br /><br />But, at the very least, I think we have identified a possible source of your problem. Tell me what you think. Hopefully, I've sparked a lightbulb or something. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-Lisa+--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lisa)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks for the help Diesel! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Glad to be of service. <br />

[[old] drkcgoh]

I have treated many diabetics and prediabetics while working as a family physician, and this subject is particulalry close to my heart because my mother had diabetes, & died of a heart attack in her 50s, while my sister & I were both born weing over 9lbs, as diabetic babies. Now both my siter & my brother who is also a physician ahve type II diabetes, & he has just had his 6-vessel heart bypass surgery even though he was a champion 1500m swimmer in his younger days. <br />

[[old] drkcgoh]

I have treated many diabetics and prediabetics while working as a family physician, and this subject is particulalry close to my heart because my mother had diabetes, & died of a heart attack in her 50s, while my sister & I were both born weing over 9lbs, as diabetic babies. Now both my siter & my brother who is also a physician ahve type II diabetes, & he has just had his 6-vessel heart bypass surgery even though he was a champion 1500m swimmer in his younger days. <br /> At 63, OI have managed to keep diabetes at bay, even though there are biochemical signs of impaired glucose tolerance. But imanaged to reduce my HbA1c down from a high 6.4mmol to 5.8 last year. The cholesterol has also been kept around 4.5 with a high HDL level of 1.7mmol. I've also run 10 marathons within 6 hrs, ultraerged, and now erg over 7 million meters.<br />

[[old] drkcgoh]

I have treated many diabetics and prediabetics while working for almost 40 years as a family physician, and this subject is particulalry close to my heart because my mother had diabetes, & died of a heart attack in her 50s, while my sister & I were both born weighing over 9lbs, as diabetic babies. Now both my sister & my brother who is also a physician have type II diabetes, & he has just had his 6-vessel heart bypass surgery even though he was a champion 1500m swimmer in his younger days. <br /> At 63, I have managed to keep diabetes at bay, even though there are biochemical signs of impaired glucose tolerance. But I managed to reduce my HbA1c down from a high 6.4mmol to 5.8 last year. The cholesterol has also been kept around 4.5 with a high HDL level of 1.7mmol. I've also run 10 marathons within 6 hrs, ultraerged, and now erg over 7 million meters. All this has been achieved with HIGH CARBOHYDRATE DIET, absolutely no vitamins or supplements, & no medication of any sort. No statins, no oral hypoglycemics, no aspirin, no antihypertensives, no antioxidant, no Vit C. <br /> Total body fat has been kept around 15% measured 4 times on DEXA total body composition, & now on the Lange body calipers. Weight is 145 lbs with a height of 5'10". The lean body mass & muscle definition, though not good enough for bodybuilding competitions is pretty respectable for any age. I lift fairly heavy weights for >1 hour in the mornings followed by >2hrs of erging for the rest of the day, & take part in race walking.<br /> There has never been any attack of hypoglycemia during even ultramarathon runs & walks of 12 hours. In fact, the blood sugar taken after a light morning workout has climbed up to a high 7.4 mmol, where the borderline for a diabetic is 7.2 This is due to the release of glucose into the bloodstream during high intensity exercise. So nowadays I make sure I rest for the morning if I am taking a fasting blood sugar.<br /> So my advice is to place more emphasis on low intensity long duration rows, eat a balanced diet, and cut down on the sugar intake. Don't bother about all those fad diets; they just make you too weak & flabby to exercise, and the placebo effect & status symbol of having to pay through your nose is all the satisfaction & justification for you to continue on them.<br />KC63<br /><br />

[[old] Lisa]

<!--QuoteBegin-drkcgoh+Mar 19 2005, 04:47 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(drkcgoh @ Mar 19 2005, 04:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />  So my advice is to place more emphasis on low intensity long duration rows, eat a balanced diet, and cut down on the sugar intake. Don't bother about all those fad diets; they just make you too weak & flabby to exercise, and the placebo effect & status symbol of having to pay through your nose is all the satisfaction & justification for you to continue on them.<br />KC63 <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I like your advice to do the low intensity long duration lows.<br /><br />As for the diet, it's not a fad. I'm not doing Atkins which is perhaps a fad. I'm following the advice of my endocrinologist and keeping the carbs low. That's the only way I've found to keep my blood glucose where it needs to be.<br /><br />If I followed a high carb diet, I would have to exercise intensely immediately after every meal and snack to get my blood glucose back down to normal ranges. With a job and home obligations, that is simply not possible. I would have to log over 2 hours of intense exercise a day to do that. Also, it seems like it is more stress on the liver and pancreas to swing the blood glucose from around 100 to up to 300-400 and back down again several times a day. <br /><br />My diet is less expensive than a traditional diet. I still eat the same amount of protein and vegetables and fruits as I did before. I no longer eat the breads, cookies, candy, so I'm not paying for those. Instead I eat low glycemic index carbohydrates. The cost of the diet is actually less than what I paid previously. I see nothing faddish about this diet. I think you are making some assumptions about what I am eating that are not true. What on earth is faddish and unhealthy about protein, vegetables, fruit and legumes???<br /><br />I think your post is well intentioned but you are making some really off the mark assumptions. A diabetic who eats a high carbohydrate diet and is unable to exercise intensely after every meal and snack is going to get in more trouble.<br /><br /><br /><br />