Concept2 is working on an Android version of the ErgData app. See www.concept2.com/ergdata for more details on the iOS version.
I am looking for a few volunteers to assist in alpha-testing an Android version of ErgData app.
To participate, I am specifically looking for individuals that...
1. Understand what an Alpha test is (the app is rough, not tested enough to even call it a 'beta') and provide constructive feedback
2. Own an Android 3.2 or higher device that you know has USB Host capability that is working.
To check, you will need a USB OTG (Micro-USB) to USB Type A Female cable and run this test app successfully:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ics&hl=en.
3. Have a rower at home or in a location where if needed you can update the firmware
4. Preferably have access to an iPhone, iPod, or iPad to compare features and operation
The first few selected in the USA or Canada may be eligible to receive an iConnectConcept2 cable for the iPhone/iPad as well as a Smartphone 'cradle' and USB OTG to USB A Female cable adapter to facilitate testing.
Please contact me via email which you can find in my picture to the right.
Android App
Re: Android App
Which PM(s) will it work on?
Re: Android App
It is expected to work on all PM3 and PM4 monitors with current firmware.
The bigger challenge is not all Android devices have the "Host" part of the USB port working or enabled.
A note on cables: Concept2 has on order a 'proper' cable for Android devices, however it is not expected in until summer. Until then, part # 9724 from MonoPrice.com or similar from Amazon will suffice when used in conjunction with a regular USB cable.
The bigger challenge is not all Android devices have the "Host" part of the USB port working or enabled.
A note on cables: Concept2 has on order a 'proper' cable for Android devices, however it is not expected in until summer. Until then, part # 9724 from MonoPrice.com or similar from Amazon will suffice when used in conjunction with a regular USB cable.
Re: Android App
Hi,
I have tried the application using a Samsung Note with OTG cable and a C2 D with PM3 (newest firmware).
Unfortunately it does not work.
Starting the application is ok. The application then displays random data in the fields.
As soon as I connect the PM3 and start rowing the fields are reset to zero. The PM3 is counting but the data is not displayed on the phone.
The USB host diagnostics software claims everything is in order.
Any ideas?
Ralf
I have tried the application using a Samsung Note with OTG cable and a C2 D with PM3 (newest firmware).
Unfortunately it does not work.
Starting the application is ok. The application then displays random data in the fields.
As soon as I connect the PM3 and start rowing the fields are reset to zero. The PM3 is counting but the data is not displayed on the phone.
The USB host diagnostics software claims everything is in order.
Any ideas?
Ralf
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Slidewinder
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Re: Android App
Somewhere past the glow of the computer screens, and deep beneath the growing encrustation of electronic instrumentation, the C2 rowing ergometer is still a very simple machine. Pull on the handle, spin the flywheel, return the handle, repeat. From the Model A to the Model E this basic functionality has not changed. Apparently though, Concept 2 won't be satisfied until this fundamentally simple device is fitted with enough monitors, controls, and interfaces, transmitters, transducers, and transponders, to rival the Hadron Collider .
Is this obsession with electronics a relentless pursuit of excellence, or is the sign of a company that long ago ran out of ideas?
Is this obsession with electronics a relentless pursuit of excellence, or is the sign of a company that long ago ran out of ideas?
Re: Android App
I think it's more a sign of what us, the consumers, want.
Re: Android App
I'm looking forward to moving from Windows PC development to Android in the coming months, and I agree it's market driven. I think the more tools available, the better the results when exercising/training. Releasing an Android App fits perfectly for those that don't have a home machine, and use one regularly in the gym. The only improvement I could see (and they already have one for smart phones) would be a caddy for a tablet, or a backlit display vs. LCD.
As far as the idea that the machine itself has reached its zenith...I sure hope so! I want mine to last 20 years, as I've read many people here have theirs working for that long. Usually the cheapest thing you can buy for your home is used exercise equipment; people practically give it away. Not so with the Concept 2. These machines hold their value. I think that's a testament to solid engineering and Concept 2's commitment to their customers not to take shortcuts, and even better, not to fix something that isn't broken solely for the ability to say "new and improved."
As far as the idea that the machine itself has reached its zenith...I sure hope so! I want mine to last 20 years, as I've read many people here have theirs working for that long. Usually the cheapest thing you can buy for your home is used exercise equipment; people practically give it away. Not so with the Concept 2. These machines hold their value. I think that's a testament to solid engineering and Concept 2's commitment to their customers not to take shortcuts, and even better, not to fix something that isn't broken solely for the ability to say "new and improved."
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Slidewinder
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Re: Android App
SeaCow,
The first step in the Alcoholics Anonymous recovery program is to admit that you have a drinking problem. The first step in the C2 groupie recovery program is to admit that you have abandoned your critical faculties. Only then can you accept that the C2 rowing ergometer is not a holy icon. It is an exercise machine built by human beings.
I have in previous postings pointed out several design flaws in the C2 rowing ergometer, and have explained and demonstrated in videos how to correct those flaws. I don't wish to re-iterate those solutions here - you can look them up if you wish. To illustrate my point though, I will use one straightforward example. So, stop the chanting, put away the incense, and steady yourself. You are about to learn that the C2 ergometer is not perfect.
If you were to wear a loose shirt while on the C2 machine, in very short order, the tail of that shirt will become jammed under the seat rollers, bringing you to a sudden, possibly dangerous stop. Anyone who has experienced this knows that without a firm hold on the handle, your upper body, by inertia, would continue to swing backwards, carrying your head in a long arc until it smacks into the back corner of the seat rail.
I already know your answer, because I have heard it many times from other rabid C2 apologists: "So? Just tuck your shirt in or wear a tighter top, and the problem is solved!"
This, of course, entirely misses the point. It places the blame on the user rather than on the designer. What I describe should never happen, regardless of the choice of clothing by the user. The C2 rowing ergometer is an exercise machine, not a turret lathe. There absolutely should be no need for special clothing, special precautions, or safety equipment, to avoid getting caught in the mechanism of an exercise device. Whether wearing loose pyjamas or flowing robes, there should be no risk to the user.
Further, many people, by their religious beliefs or by personal conviction, are modest about their bodies. To insist that these people wear a tight top while on the C2 ergometer is thoughtless and insensitive. Modest people will simple not use the device - at least not in public.
So why doesn't Concept 2 do something about this? It is an utterly simple fix. One of my videos shows a U-shaped piece of tubing which I fitted to the back of the seat to prevent loose clothing from contacting the seat rail and getting caught under the seat rollers. It works. It is my idea, but there is nothing proprietory about it. Concept 2 is free to use it. In fact, I invite them to do so (although a source acknowledgement would be gracious). Why then don't they? Is it indifference? Does Concept 2 dismiss this with the attitude expressed above - that it is the user's fault for wearing loose clothing and is not a design flaw.
Or is C2's refusal to correct this an ego problem? Has the incessant, uncritical praise from C2 groupies so swelled the C2 heads that they simply can't countenance the notion of incorporating someone else's idea into their product?
The above posters believe that C2's obsessive focus on electronics and software development is consumer driven. I question this. I think more probably it is apathy and failure of imagination. There are many mechanical (ie: non-electronic) improvements that could be made to the C2 machine, but if SeaCow and others deliberately choose to cover their eyes and close their minds to what a rowing ergometer could be, rather than what it is, and if they continue to spout the utter nonsense that the C2 machine is perfect, then they will get what they deserve. Twenty years from now people will still be getting their shirt tails caught under the seat rollers, other design flaws will remain unaltered, and Concept 2, as the saying goes, will still be laughing on the way to the bank.
The first step in the Alcoholics Anonymous recovery program is to admit that you have a drinking problem. The first step in the C2 groupie recovery program is to admit that you have abandoned your critical faculties. Only then can you accept that the C2 rowing ergometer is not a holy icon. It is an exercise machine built by human beings.
I have in previous postings pointed out several design flaws in the C2 rowing ergometer, and have explained and demonstrated in videos how to correct those flaws. I don't wish to re-iterate those solutions here - you can look them up if you wish. To illustrate my point though, I will use one straightforward example. So, stop the chanting, put away the incense, and steady yourself. You are about to learn that the C2 ergometer is not perfect.
If you were to wear a loose shirt while on the C2 machine, in very short order, the tail of that shirt will become jammed under the seat rollers, bringing you to a sudden, possibly dangerous stop. Anyone who has experienced this knows that without a firm hold on the handle, your upper body, by inertia, would continue to swing backwards, carrying your head in a long arc until it smacks into the back corner of the seat rail.
I already know your answer, because I have heard it many times from other rabid C2 apologists: "So? Just tuck your shirt in or wear a tighter top, and the problem is solved!"
This, of course, entirely misses the point. It places the blame on the user rather than on the designer. What I describe should never happen, regardless of the choice of clothing by the user. The C2 rowing ergometer is an exercise machine, not a turret lathe. There absolutely should be no need for special clothing, special precautions, or safety equipment, to avoid getting caught in the mechanism of an exercise device. Whether wearing loose pyjamas or flowing robes, there should be no risk to the user.
Further, many people, by their religious beliefs or by personal conviction, are modest about their bodies. To insist that these people wear a tight top while on the C2 ergometer is thoughtless and insensitive. Modest people will simple not use the device - at least not in public.
So why doesn't Concept 2 do something about this? It is an utterly simple fix. One of my videos shows a U-shaped piece of tubing which I fitted to the back of the seat to prevent loose clothing from contacting the seat rail and getting caught under the seat rollers. It works. It is my idea, but there is nothing proprietory about it. Concept 2 is free to use it. In fact, I invite them to do so (although a source acknowledgement would be gracious). Why then don't they? Is it indifference? Does Concept 2 dismiss this with the attitude expressed above - that it is the user's fault for wearing loose clothing and is not a design flaw.
Or is C2's refusal to correct this an ego problem? Has the incessant, uncritical praise from C2 groupies so swelled the C2 heads that they simply can't countenance the notion of incorporating someone else's idea into their product?
The above posters believe that C2's obsessive focus on electronics and software development is consumer driven. I question this. I think more probably it is apathy and failure of imagination. There are many mechanical (ie: non-electronic) improvements that could be made to the C2 machine, but if SeaCow and others deliberately choose to cover their eyes and close their minds to what a rowing ergometer could be, rather than what it is, and if they continue to spout the utter nonsense that the C2 machine is perfect, then they will get what they deserve. Twenty years from now people will still be getting their shirt tails caught under the seat rollers, other design flaws will remain unaltered, and Concept 2, as the saying goes, will still be laughing on the way to the bank.
Re: Android App
I started rowing in wooden boats with no idea of speed, rating or HR, and I'm quite happy to scull or bike with no info whatsoever - I can see when I sweat and I know when my legs are about to give up on hills, so I too think all the extra electronics are superfluous, they merely add to the fun.
However when I'm going downhill on the bike at 50km/h (30mph) and I know the next bend can be done at 40, it does help. And as the ergometer (measuring work) does just that, it seems reasonable that it should let us know what we're doing. Indeed it's electronics that makes such a simple piece of engineering work so effectively; do you remember what was needed to measure the power output of an engine, in the days before electronics?
As for risks, the erg has no motor, so there is no legal requirement (where I live) to enclose all moving parts. Same as a bike. So I avoid wearing loose clothing and don't stick my fingers in the spokes. The user must always use due precaution. Any machine can be dangerous if used incorrectly or not for design purpose. Microwaves are for heating food; so I don't use it to dry my hair, not that I have any.
We have to recognise that some things are risky: standing under a crane, near moving machinery, sculling on cold water, trying to light the fire with meths, having children, writing sms when driving, there's an infinite list; so either we don't do them, or we accept risk or use procedures to limit it. Our choice, save legal obligations.
For me the erg has just one defect of any interest: the slack catch. If you can sort that, well done.
However when I'm going downhill on the bike at 50km/h (30mph) and I know the next bend can be done at 40, it does help. And as the ergometer (measuring work) does just that, it seems reasonable that it should let us know what we're doing. Indeed it's electronics that makes such a simple piece of engineering work so effectively; do you remember what was needed to measure the power output of an engine, in the days before electronics?
As for risks, the erg has no motor, so there is no legal requirement (where I live) to enclose all moving parts. Same as a bike. So I avoid wearing loose clothing and don't stick my fingers in the spokes. The user must always use due precaution. Any machine can be dangerous if used incorrectly or not for design purpose. Microwaves are for heating food; so I don't use it to dry my hair, not that I have any.
We have to recognise that some things are risky: standing under a crane, near moving machinery, sculling on cold water, trying to light the fire with meths, having children, writing sms when driving, there's an infinite list; so either we don't do them, or we accept risk or use procedures to limit it. Our choice, save legal obligations.
For me the erg has just one defect of any interest: the slack catch. If you can sort that, well done.
08-1940, 183cm, 83kg.
2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week
2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week
Re: Android App
Slidewinder,
I can only speak from my experience with ergs. Having owned both a Fluid Rower, and Concept 2...the Fluid rower broke. The manufacturer did not return emails or phone calls made by either me or the the dealer. So I lost either $1200 or $1500...it is too painful a memory to recollect!
The C2 folks are responsive, and their machine can be fixed by anyone (that isn't from experience, only from my extended research before purchase). I noticed you are making a product that is a different erg...my product works with the C2. So you do understand, with this being a C2 forum, why I would be a proponent
I also feel good about buying it, and want to get the word out to anyone else who is out there reading these forums and debating which rower is right for them. I'm a satisfied customer and look forward to using my C2 for 20 years. It gives you the ability to connect your computer, and now your smart phone...it is a stationary exercise machine. From my point of view as someone writing software for it, the more gadgets the merrier!
PS And I'll trade you a copy of those wheel guards for a copy of Delta Rower. I got my basketball shorts stuck in the wheels and nearly had them torn off me (but now I just wear different shorts. Like riding a bike, you never forget...the first time you wear pants with no chain guard, and to tuck in your shoelaces). A wheel guard would be nice. Thanks for the entertaining reply, I enjoyed it.
I can only speak from my experience with ergs. Having owned both a Fluid Rower, and Concept 2...the Fluid rower broke. The manufacturer did not return emails or phone calls made by either me or the the dealer. So I lost either $1200 or $1500...it is too painful a memory to recollect!
The C2 folks are responsive, and their machine can be fixed by anyone (that isn't from experience, only from my extended research before purchase). I noticed you are making a product that is a different erg...my product works with the C2. So you do understand, with this being a C2 forum, why I would be a proponent
I also feel good about buying it, and want to get the word out to anyone else who is out there reading these forums and debating which rower is right for them. I'm a satisfied customer and look forward to using my C2 for 20 years. It gives you the ability to connect your computer, and now your smart phone...it is a stationary exercise machine. From my point of view as someone writing software for it, the more gadgets the merrier! PS And I'll trade you a copy of those wheel guards for a copy of Delta Rower. I got my basketball shorts stuck in the wheels and nearly had them torn off me (but now I just wear different shorts. Like riding a bike, you never forget...the first time you wear pants with no chain guard, and to tuck in your shoelaces). A wheel guard would be nice. Thanks for the entertaining reply, I enjoyed it.
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Slidewinder
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- Joined: April 6th, 2010, 6:52 pm
Re: Android App
As I wrote: If your shirt tail gets caught under the seat rollers, and if through the force of the resulting abrupt stop, you lose grip on the handle, your upper body, by inertia, will pivot backwards, carrying your head in a long arc until it smashes into the rear corner of the seat rail.
Maybe when someone suffers permanent brain injury or death from such a mishap, and Concept 2 in a lawsuit is found liable for that brain injury or death, then Concept 2 will install a simple, inexpensive wheel guard to prevent this from occurring. In such a lawsuit, the prosecutor would argue that Concept 2 was fully aware of the risk of injury to anyone using the C2 designed equipment, but C2 chose to do nothing to eliminate that risk. This posting and my previous posting could be used as evidence to support that argument. I doubt the jury would accept Concept 2's defence that they intended to fix the problem, but were unable to because they were too busy developing Android apps and video boat race games.
It would be pointed out that Concept 2 did find the time to design a simple air deflector for the C2 Dynamic in response to complaints from users that the breeze was annoying. Apparently, the elimination of the risk of an errant breeze is a more urgent matter to Concept 2 than the elimination of the risk of a split cranium.
Maybe when someone suffers permanent brain injury or death from such a mishap, and Concept 2 in a lawsuit is found liable for that brain injury or death, then Concept 2 will install a simple, inexpensive wheel guard to prevent this from occurring. In such a lawsuit, the prosecutor would argue that Concept 2 was fully aware of the risk of injury to anyone using the C2 designed equipment, but C2 chose to do nothing to eliminate that risk. This posting and my previous posting could be used as evidence to support that argument. I doubt the jury would accept Concept 2's defence that they intended to fix the problem, but were unable to because they were too busy developing Android apps and video boat race games.
It would be pointed out that Concept 2 did find the time to design a simple air deflector for the C2 Dynamic in response to complaints from users that the breeze was annoying. Apparently, the elimination of the risk of an errant breeze is a more urgent matter to Concept 2 than the elimination of the risk of a split cranium.
Re: Android App
Slidewinder,
Can you please use this opportunity to explain to everyone what happened when you brought this to C2's attention? I've read through your prior posts, and I have to agree with the majority, there is an awful lot of sour grapes on your part. Why?
Regarding your post, C2 did do something. Read the manual. Page 10, Safety E.6: Keep clothing free of seat rollers.
If the machine is being used in a gym, you usually have to sign a contract making you agree to use the equipment at your own risk. Gyms also have dress codes for a reason, they don't want to see people get their clothing caught in the equipment.
You seem pretty keen on pointing out that Concept 2 is being neglectful (when they are not). But what would happen if they adopted your clothing guard, and then someone with long flowing hair decides to use their rower (with clothing guard) and manages to get their hair caught in the wheels? Your guard wouldn't prevent that from happening. Can you see now how every accident, no matter how remote, cannot be avoided? There really is a reason you need to dress properly for the activity you are engaged in.
Anyway, I don't think what you are describing can be physically done. Mythbusters disproved a similar action of putting a stick into the spokes of the front wheel of a moving motorcycle (http://mythbustersresults.com/motorcycle-flip). The bike skidded, the stick broke, or the spokes broke. They couldn't get the bike to flip end over end without getting explosives involved. Basic physics shows me you are not moving at 40 MPH as the bike was, more like 5.5 MPH at 60 SPM. I know you can get hurt going even slower than that, but it just doesn't seem to be the case. I can attest to things going the other way with a Fluid Rower. The clutch broke during the drive (1:50 pace), I went flying backwards...but I didn't fall. Granted, the seat didn't lock up on me. Sorry, it just doesn't sound like a common enough phenomenon. Or if it is, you really need to start your own business and get your seat guard out there for sale.
Can you please use this opportunity to explain to everyone what happened when you brought this to C2's attention? I've read through your prior posts, and I have to agree with the majority, there is an awful lot of sour grapes on your part. Why?
Regarding your post, C2 did do something. Read the manual. Page 10, Safety E.6: Keep clothing free of seat rollers.
If the machine is being used in a gym, you usually have to sign a contract making you agree to use the equipment at your own risk. Gyms also have dress codes for a reason, they don't want to see people get their clothing caught in the equipment.
You seem pretty keen on pointing out that Concept 2 is being neglectful (when they are not). But what would happen if they adopted your clothing guard, and then someone with long flowing hair decides to use their rower (with clothing guard) and manages to get their hair caught in the wheels? Your guard wouldn't prevent that from happening. Can you see now how every accident, no matter how remote, cannot be avoided? There really is a reason you need to dress properly for the activity you are engaged in.
Anyway, I don't think what you are describing can be physically done. Mythbusters disproved a similar action of putting a stick into the spokes of the front wheel of a moving motorcycle (http://mythbustersresults.com/motorcycle-flip). The bike skidded, the stick broke, or the spokes broke. They couldn't get the bike to flip end over end without getting explosives involved. Basic physics shows me you are not moving at 40 MPH as the bike was, more like 5.5 MPH at 60 SPM. I know you can get hurt going even slower than that, but it just doesn't seem to be the case. I can attest to things going the other way with a Fluid Rower. The clutch broke during the drive (1:50 pace), I went flying backwards...but I didn't fall. Granted, the seat didn't lock up on me. Sorry, it just doesn't sound like a common enough phenomenon. Or if it is, you really need to start your own business and get your seat guard out there for sale.
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Slidewinder
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- Joined: April 6th, 2010, 6:52 pm
Re: Android App
Seacow,
Long flowing hair getting caught in the wheels. Give me a break. But I most certainly have got my shirt tail caught in the wheels, and I expect many others have too. Someone with weak abdominal muscles who loses grip on the handle could very well swing back with their head and suffer a serious injury. There are warning stickers on a step ladder I own. I see no warning stickers on my Model D. A guard to prevent the described accident would be utterly simple - as simple as the breeze deflector I mentioned which Concept 2 has obviously considered a more urgent matter. There is nothing proprietary about my wheel guard. Concept 2 can have the idea for free.
Long flowing hair getting caught in the wheels. Give me a break. But I most certainly have got my shirt tail caught in the wheels, and I expect many others have too. Someone with weak abdominal muscles who loses grip on the handle could very well swing back with their head and suffer a serious injury. There are warning stickers on a step ladder I own. I see no warning stickers on my Model D. A guard to prevent the described accident would be utterly simple - as simple as the breeze deflector I mentioned which Concept 2 has obviously considered a more urgent matter. There is nothing proprietary about my wheel guard. Concept 2 can have the idea for free.