"love Handles"

[[old] grams]

You guys are lucky. The 'ab fat thing' is particularly cruel to us old ladies right now, with all of the fashions featuring the really low pants and bare midriff look.<br /><br />On using abs, I find that if I focus on keeping them tight my split time is better.<br /><br />grams<br /><br />

[[old] gw1]

Guess Who,<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A propensity to store fat, huh? Where did that come from? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes this is the "general" rule for males, where as females are more likely to store fat on their hips, buttocks and tricep area! This may vary according to body types within each gender!<br /><br />GW<br /><br />

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-grams+Feb 1 2005, 06:58 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(grams @ Feb 1 2005, 06:58 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->with all of the fashions featuring the really low pants and bare midriff look.<br /><br />grams <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Grams,<br /><br />You are soooooo right about the fashion for bare midriffs and really low pants being cruel.<br /><br />My neighbours are having some building work done opposite my study window and the 300 lb bricklayer is right up there leading this particular fashion so when I look across I can see all his midriffs!<br /><br />I think it is time for me to go to the gym now before he finishes the row he is on at the moment and turns his back to me to start the next one!

[[old] pduck]

<!--QuoteBegin-neilb+Feb 2 2005, 02:19 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ Feb 2 2005, 02:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-grams+Feb 1 2005, 06:58 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(grams @ Feb 1 2005, 06:58 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->with all of the fashions featuring the really low pants and bare midriff look.<br /><br />grams <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Grams,<br /><br />You are soooooo right about the fashion for bare midriffs and really low pants being cruel.<br /><br />My neighbours are having some building work done opposite my study window and the 300 lb bricklayer is right up there leading this particular fashion so when I look across I can see all his midriffs!<br /><br />I think it is time for me to go to the gym now before he finishes the row he is on at the moment and turns his back to me to start the next one! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yikes!! I hope you're not getting too much "plumbers smile!"<br /><br />Now I need to go work out...I don't want people talking about me!

[[old] Mark Keating]

<!--QuoteBegin-Kudos+Feb 1 2005, 06:39 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Kudos @ Feb 1 2005, 06:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I notice a lot of experienced rowers do not use much torso action in their stroke. Thats the majority of the problem with a lot of rowers is that they don't focus on technique 1/5 of the amount that they should. But anyway, a lot of people open their back gradually throughout the entire strokeand there fore isolate their stroke to just legs and arms. They appear to have layback, but thats only because their body is past 90 degrees at the finish, no because they used it to increase the spin on the wheel. A good drill is to spend a lot of time in your warm-up going through the stroke parts. Legs only, legs and back only, etc. Anyway, this is hands on type stuff, but can't hurt to try to explain anayway <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Thanks Kudos, I think I know what you mean. I just wanted to clarify that the line <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I notice a lot of experienced rowers do not use much torso action in their stroke. </td></tr></table><br />wasn't meant to read "... a lot of INexperienced rowers ...". <br /><br />It sounds a bit contradictory the way you have stated it, but I think you are saying that most experiencd rowers sit rather tall throughout the stroke, then use a strong body swing after the legs have fully extended. Correct me if I'm wrong.<br /><br />I am probably one of those that "appear" to have layback, especially when doing UT2 or UT1 work. I find that as I increase the intensity and SPM (and therefore my momentum), I do feel my abs at the end of the workout. I will try grams advice (re: keeping the abs tight throughout the stroke) as well.<br /><br />Mark

[[old] Kudos]

I did mean experienced, but I definitly didn't mean good . Ha, It comes from a lazy approach and doing way too much UT2 type rowing. Some of these people can have a couple of years of experince bt when you get into too much UT2/SS type training it can make you comfortable with certain bad habits and not even notice that you are doing them. People can focus too much on their HR and 500m split and not on their technique. These bad habits then transfer over to harder intensities and can put a lot of people at a standstill in their performance improvement. Anyway, I'm not saying that you or anyone else neccesarily does this, but it is definitly somehting to keep an eye on if you want to race and get the most out of your strokes

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Kudos+Feb 1 2005, 10:39 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Kudos @ Feb 1 2005, 10:39 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hey mark, I find a lot of time that people do not use their abs in rowing like they should. It takes a hefty amount of body swing to impact the abs at the finish and to swing back up for the recovery. You really have to focus on pressing the elgs down firmly at the end of thier motion and use the hip flexors/abs/lowerback to force open the the finish. I notice a lot of experienced rowers do not use much torso action in their stroke. Thats the majority of the problem with a lot of rowers is that they don't focus on technique 1/5 of the amount that they should. But anyway, a lot of people open their back gradually throughout the entire strokeand there fore isolate their stroke to just legs and arms. They appear to have layback, but thats only because their body is past 90 degrees at the finish, no because they used it to increase the spin on the wheel. A good drill is to spend a lot of time in your warm-up going through the stroke parts. Legs only, legs and back only, etc. Anyway, this is hands on type stuff, but can't hurt to try to explain anayway <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Kudos,<br />Could you say more about this. How much layback do you aim for. Where do you use the abs the most, at the very end of the drive and first part of recovery? Do you feel the muscular action and effects in your abs?<br /><br />Thanks.<br />

[[old] Kudos]

Question: How much layback do I aim for?<br />Answer: tough question to answer without showing. I would say its somewhere around 120 degrees if laying flat on your back is 180 degrees. I stop the instant my glute muscles start to tuck under. This may not be a good reference for everyone because many people have different flexbility ranges and sit on the seat at different places. I find many people sit too far forward on the seat, not by much but I like to place it so the front just touches the top of my hamstring. Weird at first but you get used to.<br /><br />Question: Where do I use my abs the most?<br />Answer: Definitly at the start of the layback through to the end of the finish. At the catch your abs should be secure and tight, but not straining. If you have the correct catch angle the legs should be doing most of the work. You want to be relaxed enough at the catch to be able to take it quickly with some good length, not bolt upright like you got a rod driven up there. I feel it the most in my obliques and upper part of my abs at somewhere just before the 90 degree mark and in my hip flexors and lower section of abs at just past the 90 degree mark<br /><br />Question: do you feel muscular action in your abs?<br />Answer: Not if you have a well conditioned core and your not focusing on it. If you think about POP-swiiiiiing, then you can make a mind-to-muscle connection Granted on 2k races everything hurts so I'm not gonna say you won't feel it. The only time they get real sore is at high intensity low ratings. In order to get the splits down a firmer swing action is neccessary.<br /><br />Basically I posted that statement a while ago for people to make mental checks on keeping their technique in check. Its real important fully utilize all the sections of the stroke and when you get comfortable or distracted with other things its easy to let them blend too much togethor especially when there is a lot going on in that last 30% of the stroke that is the layback and pull through. If you are getting half your layback throughout your leg drive, your wasting the mechanical advantage of using it at the end of the stroke. Let the legs do the work when they are supposed to and let the back do the work whn it is supposed to. <br /><br />Feel free to ask more questions or inquire for some further explanantions.

[[old] John Rupp]

Kudos,<br /><br />For clarification, do you primarily use the abs from just before 90 degrees to the end of the layback?<br /><br />Does this mean you don't use the abs from 120 degrees through recovery?<br /><br />What is the POP part of POP-swiiiiiing?<br /><br />Thanks.

[[old] Kudos]

primarily, yes. They are used to hold the stable platform for the leg drive with the lower back muscles. I don't mean to downplay that this section of the strong core is very effective. But so far as being responsible for continuing to accelerate the wheel, the stress on the abs should increase. During the leg drive, they act as a stabilizer, no small role, but during the layback them and the lower back are the primary muscles for the acceleration and should be used to do so, NOT a continuation as a stablizer for the arms pullthrough. Its really not an issue of how they are used, but when and for how long. It may seem like shooting your tail of bum shoving, but its important to stay pitched forward throughout the leg drive and then rip that back open. Not literally of course , using those abs and LB to keep the wheel accelerating On the recovery at higher rates you will need to use abs on the recovery to get back up quickly. But it should be quite easy and not something to worry about, its only a small movement and if your seat is correctly placed your hip flexors should help out on this movement a lot.<br /><br />The POP part, is the leg drive. It should be quick and forcefull. This is especially important on the erg and in large boats. Where you are not penalized but rewarded for such a quick and forcefull leg drive. In smaller boats you'll need to slow this down and extend the pressure throughout the entire stroke to avoid ripping water, but thats for another BB.<br /><br />I'm on my way to Tampa, FL today for a week to get some water rowing in, finally, but I will answer any more questions about this when I get back.

[[old] grams]

I find that if I watch the numbers I rush the recovery part of my stroke. That's because I start to focus on doingthe next stroke before I have finished the present one. <br /><br />For a different perspective try a totally non-analytic approach. You can do it the aikido way, holding your ki (your 'center'), located just below your belly button.<br /><br />If I meditate on holding my ki and directing a circle of energy from it through my arms, then through the erg and back up through my legs to my center again, then my stroke smooths out, I don't rush the recovery, and I am relaxed and a lot more efficient.<br /><br />So, how si the 'love handles' removal going so far?<br /><br />grams

[[old] John Rupp]

Kudos,<br /><br />I like the POP-swiiiiiing idea. This is helpful to think of.<br /><br />Eskild Ebbesen does this very quickly as well. His seat is in the back position almost instantaneously from the catch.<br /><br />I checked my abs today while rowing and noticed they are quite firm, though I don't particularly feel them.<br /><br />Enjoy FL and thanks much for your helpful comments.

[[old] John Rupp]

I quite often watch the numbers, but only at the catch and not at any other part of the stroke.<br /><br />So it doesn't really affect the recovery.

[[old] Mark Keating]

<!--QuoteBegin-grams+Feb 25 2005, 04:46 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(grams @ Feb 25 2005, 04:46 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />So, how si the 'love handles' removal going so far?<br /><br />grams <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Slow and steady - the same way that I developed them! <br /><br />Mark