Model E - corrosion

[joe80]

Sorry that the link doesn't work; it produces the image when I click on it but perhaps you have to be a member of the 'Rowers' facebook group to be given access to the pictures. There's 424 of us at the moment.

I'll copy them to my photobucket account and try to post them here shortly.

Regards,

Joe

[joe80]

Hope the links work this time:





Looks like a severe instance of corrosion and metal fatigue. Paul lives in Dublin, Ireland so not in any extreme climate.

Regards,

Joe

[Esp1Holm]

Ouch! That looks serious. And exactly where mine is starting to corrode. Probably also a point prone to fatigue.

[ecduffy]

I am posting this to add as a report to this file of the corrosion issues that I note.

I row daily, since 2013. Purchased this unit November of 2013. I am also a daily cleaner, and keep the chain oiled with 3 in 1.

I row in my basement for 6 months and in my garage for 6 months, during warmer months. I live in NW NJ, a fairly humid environment. I have recently noticed corrosion on the back leg, where the weld connects to the foot, and also the chain around the swivel and several inches up the chain.

I plan to sand off rust on the leg, and repaint. The chain, I will have to accept what has happened, and add more oil.

Any suggestions welcome. I have not figured out how to load pictures yet.

[Carl Watts]

Alot of the corrosion damage is done by sweat. The back leg of mine has rust spots all down it.Basically mine can eat 304 stainless steel.

Currently I am going to have to rebuild the monorail on my model D. I would add that the grey/blue paint does not appear to be as good as the black paint on the Model C. Sweat has got under the paint on the D and now its bubbling up so basically I will have to get some paint stripper and completely remove the paint from under the stainless slide cap and just underneath this as well where the safety rollers touch if the seat tries to come off.The paint is quite thick so you simply cannot have parts with paint on and other parts with no paint.I think I will then clearcote it with something like Electrolube HPA or just leave it plain aluminium depending on how it affects the adhesion of the double sides tape which will be 3 strips this time and not 2.

I notice the new steel seat frames are now painted black, the old ones got in a real mess.These should be nickel plated and then painted.

It would be an added expense but many owners may want to look at getting some parts stripped and either nickel plated, or galvanised and then repainted. No doubt you could get them chrome plated and just leave them shinny. The back leg is one such part and so is the horizontal front leg with the wheels on it.

[nick rockliff]

My D started going rusty quite soon but still going strong 13 years later.

[Archigeist]

I'm new to the forum and wanted to comment on this topic because it might be of interest to someone considering the purchase of a C2 rowing machine. I have had the model E since 2010. As new I waxed it once with a regular car wax, and have cleaned it after every 1-3 workouts, oiled the chain ca. every 50 hours of use and sprayed some WD40 on the nuts and bolts maybe 3 times during the 7 years. I had it on a porch of a summer cottage for two summers, about 50 meters from a lake. There is a constant breeze from the lake, the cottage has some humidity problems because of it. I have also stored the C2 in cold storage with relatively high humidity for long periods of time.

I was quite shocked to see the corrosion pictures in this thread, because I don't have any signs of corrosion on my machine. I have only rowed ca. 2,5 million meters, and the C2 looks and feels like new. So I would guess it is a good idea to treat it like a car, wax it at least once and spray bare metal parts with WD40 sometimes, if it is exposed to moist air. Wiping off the sweat is probably good practice any way

[Carl Watts]

There is a big difference is fresh water blowing off a lake and saltwater blowing in the from the sea.

Sweat is also a major problem for me, have had to remove the rear leg and strip it back, nutralise the rust with rust killer, prime and repaint it.

The monorail required completely rebuilding as the sweat got under the rail and once it got under the paint, the double sided tape that was reapplied simply pulled all the paint off.

Even 304 stainless steel cannot cope with sweat so it has to be fully wiped down after rows during the summer.

Would never leave my rower outside unless there were no other options, its just asking for problems.

[Archigeist]

Carl, true, salt is the main problem of course. I was wondering if applying a thin layer of linseed (flaxseed) oil on those vulnerable parts would make sense. I have seen some classic car restaurateurs use it on the inside of door panels etc. to prevent corrosion. To avoid the kind of rail damage you described, I might give it a try and just put some oil under the rail. I would assume the rail can be disassembled by sliding the stainless steel "cover" to the rear after removing the rear leg, but is it hard to put it back?

[Carl Watts]

I would assume the rail can be disassembled by sliding the stainless steel "cover" to the rear after removing the rear leg, but is it hard to put it back?

No the stainless monorail cap is held to the alloy monorail by two strips of 1 inch double side tape down the outside edges under where the rollers touch the rail.

This is perfectly fine unless you sweat a lot because the gap caused by the missing tape right up the middle allows any type of fluid to capillary action the entire length of the rail and just sit there 24/7 causing havoc.You may be okay if the alloy was hard anodized but eventually my sweat found its way past the paint and then undermined all the paint work. Pretty rare I'm sure but the strip then just lifted on the rail taking all the paint with it.

The obvious solution is to just put THREE strips of 1 inch tape covering the entire surface of the monorail and thereby removing the gap and also adding 50% more "Stick" to the stainless cap, which is what I did after using paint stripper to remove any remaining paint on top of the monorail, sanding it back with fine sandpaper and then clear coating it before adding the new tape.

Not expecting a re-occurrence of the problem.

[Archigeist]

No the stainless monorail cap is held to the alloy monorail by two strips of 1 inch double side tape down the outside edges under where the rollers touch the rail.

Oh, that sounds a bit trickier to take apart than I thought. I think I will just let it be for now, since there is no sign of problems. I don't want to risk causing some unnecessary damage when disassembling the rail. I have come to think that my main problem is that I am not sweating enough Will try to cut 2 seconds off from my pace on the next 10K, that might help.

By the way, Carl, THANK YOU for inspiration, I think I saw your posts about a computer and monitor setup with RowPro next to your C2 years ago, on this or the British forum. Might have been YouTube, too, it was a long time ago. It helped me to realise that this is not just a rowing machine, but a system that can make rowing much more interesting!

[Anth_F]

I sometimes sweat puddles when doing longer stuff in humid conditions... but the puddles always gather in the middle of the monorail and don't ever spill over the sides and onto the strips on my C2 model E. That makes the wipe up & clean afterwards much simpler and quicker as well.

Perhaps it's different on the D models?

I look after my rower like i do my car... making sure it's clean as a whistle constantly and nicely maintained (they cost enough money to buy, so to me it's only common sense to look after them as best you can). I can see how having it outdoors could cause issues however, no matter how often you cleaned it. I live by the coast so it is very possible mine could succumb to rust if i used it outside.

[Carl Watts]

I sometimes sweat puddles when doing longer stuff in humid conditions... but the puddles always gather in the middle of the monorail and don't ever spill over the sides and onto the strips on my C2 model E. That makes the wipe up & clean afterwards much simpler and quicker as well.

The problem occurs when that sweat building up on the center of the rail (its coming off the back of the seat in the center and dripping on the rail) eventually builds up to the point it runs forward due to the slope on the monorail and hits the plastic cover at the front.

If you look at this cover that is held on by two plastic rivets, it has a small arch in it and its not watertight. Some of the sweat capillary actions under this and then its just a short trip off the end of the stainless down into the gap under the middle of your stainless capping strip on the rail.

This is what happened to mine and the cap eventually just came loose in the middle of the rail.

What I would do if I bought a brand new rower is get some flowable silicone rubber (Dow Corning 734) and seal off BOTH ends of the stainless rail. The best idea would to be remove the stainless capping strip from the outset and put a third strip of tape down it but this would be way to hard to get off while the tape was new. In my case I would probably go as far as inverting the rail and putting silicone down both edges of the rail and filling in the gap between the stainless and the alloy rail. This stuff is also an excellent adhesive so it just adds to holding the capping strip in place.

Concept 2 could eliminate this problem by putting a third strip of tape on the rail at the factory.

By sealing the capping strip you can sweat all over the place and at least easily replace parts that are cheap and easy to remove and service like the lower seat rollers which eventually seize up.

Other steel parts really wanted to be nickel plated, like the rear leg and the front horizontal that has the wheels on but the cost would be prohibitive for the relatively small number of people that had corrosion issues.

[Anth_F]

Yeah, i noticed that sweat gets down in there. Seen it on Remi's machine when he posted pics, his was all corroded on those join up bars under the plastic cover. You would think they should have been a water tight seal on there from the factory tbh... the slide slopes in that direction so it's only natural sweat is going to run down into there. I will split my rower from time to time and keep an eye on that.

link to Remi's thread of said issue

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=155210#p402466

[ecduffy]

I keep my 4 year old model E in the basement for 6 months, and then in the garage for 6 months in the spring and summer. I live in Northern NJ, USA. Very high humidity. This year I have noticed corrosion on the frame, and around the handle attachment on the nickle plated chain. I can tend to the corrosion on the frame, but not the chain. I believe that coupled with humidity, that sweat gets to these locations, and causes additional corrosion. Also, notice that the powder coating is eroding near sweat areas.
I probably have 5 years left in the machine, based on others post's that I have read. I am glad that I have taken up rowing. Happier to know some of the limitations on the life of the rower. And what I may expect, now and in the future. I find it interesting the amount of views on this simple post. I think this is a huge issue that my be resolved going forward (we are stuck with current and past) with improvements in the metal used in manufacturing. The chain can be 310 or better stainless. Probably some improvements in the powder coating method can improve the life of the frame, especially around the welds. I have brought this to the attention of C2, and was simply told to keep in doors all the time. Note: Even my basement has humidity, and knowing how much comes from sweat vs humidity is difficult, but I would bet that sweat is more corrosive. Also, I would bet that the yearly usage on my machine ranks over that of an avg gym. If they were to poll the top 10 private owners of each of the teams, this theory would bear out. Hope this helps.