Big guy rowing - video feedback requested

[Cyclingman1]

Indoor rowing at its best. This dude is around 40 SPM. Hard to argue with 1:28/500m over 2K.
Of course this a ultimate time trail. One would do little training at this speed and intensity. Nonetheless, to accomplish the ultimate in combining power and endurance, this is how it is done.

[hjs]

Rate 40? Actually 32/33.......

This is a very fast, 5.52 time trial, the guy is short for a rower 1.87m. A very good example for a good rower, but it has little or nothing to do with rating during training.

This guy is Steffan Phaller, he also pulled a 1.13 500 m on youtube.

Rate in itself has not much to do with technique. This guy origianally did long distance work and has a very strong marathon pb, after that he bulked up via weightswork and concentrated more on the shorter work.

Wr holder lightweight Johansson, does pull around 40 during his 2k races he can be found on youtube to. Most lightweights pull higher rates.

[Cyclingman1]

I counted 36. I make no claims that high rate = good technique. On the other hand, high rate does not preclude good technique. In fact, weakness in technique will likely be accentuated when trying to push the rate. Not enough time for compensation. I like the efficiency of this rower. He gets all he can out of his rowing. No wasted time. Of course, no way can anyone row like that for an extended amount of time.

[hjs]

I counted 36. I make no claims that high rate = good technique. On the other hand, high rate does not preclude good technique. In fact, weakness in technique will likely be accentuated when trying to push the rate. Not enough time for compensation. I like the efficiency of this rower. He gets all he can out of his rowing. No wasted time. Of course, no way can anyone row like that for an extended amount of time.

You counted wrong, he pulles 32 for the main part.

We agree about him, I alo really like his style, he is very active in his whole body, during his 500 m even more so. For a guy his seize he is very fast, among the fastest given his height. And he must be very strong two, pulling 1.13 on 500 an this pace at rate takes some power.

[Cyclingman1]

I row 31-33, seldom below or above. Pfaller really seems several strokes faster than me. His pull/push obviously is quite strong, though he makes it look easy.

[Bob S.]

For a guy his seize he is very fast, among the fastest given his height. And he must be very strong two, pulling 1.13 on 500 an this pace at rate takes some power.

hjs, What are his height and weight? Also, do you happen to know what rates he uses for longer pieces and for general training?

Bob S.

[hjs]

For a guy his seize he is very fast, among the fastest given his height. And he must be very strong two, pulling 1.13 on 500 an this pace at rate takes some power.

hjs, What are his height and weight? Also, do you happen to know what rates he uses for longer pieces and for general training?

Bob S.

187 weight was a low 90. They thing I know is that he has a background otw, and came from the longer distance. Has a very strong fm pb. After that he changed his training and focused more on the shorter stuff.

How he trained exactly I really don,t know. But little doubt he did a lot. To get the times he did, you have to work very hard plus have the talent.

[Cyclingman1]

'There are some things to notice about Pfaller's rowing.

At the catch his shins are well past vertical, butt nearly at heels. His forward lean is not a lot.
As he drives back, his back is already in motion. In fact, by the time his legs are straight, his back is essentially at its most rearward point.
The last phase of his drive is arms only.

In other words, his rowing differs quite a bit from the Concept 2 classic training video. The training video really emphasizes consecutive movements, not simultaneous. The legs are pretty much straight before the back moves much on the drive phase. At the catch the shins are not past vertical. One can wonder just how useful it really is.

Pfaller's form is designed to utilize every ounce of energy, not necessarily to look good. Although, I think his rowing looks quite good.

[hjs]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g3D9uF1 ... ults_video[/youtube]

Here his sprinting, where he uses a completely different stroke, a lot shorter and a lot faster Spm, which is what you need to be fast, you can't sprint below 40 spm.

60 strokes in 1:13.7 So 48.8 Spm Av

[Cyclingman1]

500m and less is pretty much an irrelevancy for most rowers, or, at the least, much different for everyone at longer distances. It may or may not be indicative of one's general rowing ability.

In other words, 500m rowing technique is minimally instructive for most of us.

I would go on to say, that the 2K PB effort has to be put into context as far as its applicability to longer distances.

[hjs]

500m and less is pretty much an irrelevancy for most rowers, or, at the least, much different for everyone at longer distances. It may or may not be indicative of one's general rowing ability.

In other words, 500m rowing technique is minimally instructive for most of us.

I would go on to say, that the 2K PB effort has to be put into context as far as its applicability to longer distances.

It shows that a good rower can and will use different ratings.

His 2k was rate 32 for 1.28 pace.
His 500 rate 49 for 1.13 pace.

His longer stuff will no doubt be a lot lower on the spm

[tarverator]

At the catch his shins are well past vertical, butt nearly at heels. His forward lean is not a lot.

I noticed exactly the same thing, and this is similar to what I have been doing -- I feel better about it now, as I can force more forward lean and keep my shins vertical, but it feels like more of a hassle than any big improvement in technique. I am sure I can gradually introduce more forward lean and less shins-past-vertical-at-the-catch once my belly starts to melt away...

I did the "stroke rate ladder" drill I described above for an hour (which was tedious but worthwhile) and concluded that the best stroke rate for me was indeed in the mid-20's, higher than I had been going. I am still playing around with drag factor, in the range 120-140. Any higher and it gets hard on the joints; much lower and it feels like I am not taking advantage of my size and strength to develop greater fitness.

I am up to 164,784m total, since December 27. My last hour was 14,555m at a pace of 2:03.6/500 at 24 SPM and 82% average heart rate (=156 BPM) with a one-minute HR recovery of 173-36, at a drag of 140.

My weight hasn't budged, and sits stubbornly just proud of 261 pounds. These are still early days. I am looking forward to attaining a 2:00 pace over an hour and hitting 15,000m... I wonder how long it will take?

[Cyclingman1]

One suspects that rowing nearly every day keeps you slightly on the tired side, being new to rowing. The 2:00 pace is probably within reach with a couple of days rest if that pace is important enough to achieve.

[hjs]

5.56 Wr lightweight this weekend, talking about high rate

[Cyclingman1]

SPM appears to be right around 40. His legs may not even come vertical in the catch phase. He really uses the upper body. I notice the arms are bent early in the drive phase and there is a lengthy time at the end of the drive phase when only his arms are pulling on the handle. I don't think he is going to pass the test of those who want to see classic rowing form. Yet, results speak.