Low back pain and concept2 rower (SkiErg better?)

[T_B]

Hi,

I own a concept2 rower for a few years now, but don't use it that much lately due to having low back pain even after very short sessions. Tried it again last two weeks every day only 5 minutes and even then I noticed my back starting to become increasingly painful.

Read a lot of articles about rowing and backpain and I don't think my technique is very bad (showed it to a sports instructor and he said it was ok). I also row with a straight back and don't lean backwards that much at the end of the movement to avoid too much strain on my back.
I wish rowing didn't cause this issue, because I love the activity and how it feels on the rest of my body. Unfortunately my back is the bottleneck that prevents me from enjoying it for at least a year now.

After reading some of the posts on this forum I think I have these options:

- core exercises to strengthen my core. I did core exercises in the past and know it is very good for stability in any sport. I am playing soccer too, and after each game I feel my back is aching (not very painful but quite sore). I am sure this will be beneficial. I would rather have one training method to train core, legs and upper body with one device though. That is why I bought a concept2 rower.
- not use the straps
I haven't tried this yet, might be helpful.
- buy slides
Read a lot of good comments about slides. They are quite expensive though, and I don't know if it will really help. If it helps and I will be able to row again without damaging my back, I will gladly pay it though.
- Buy a cross trainer.
I think this is the most certain method to avoid back pain. Cross trainers don't really work the upper body though, and that is what I really like about my concept2 rower. I always thought rowing was a low impact exercise and I used it a lot in the past when I had injuries that prevented me from playing soccer.

What about the SkiErg? Seems like a great exercise (and I like skiing), but I am worried you also strain the lower back during squatting.

[Quatroux]

I'd try rowing w/o straps. You can also post a short video of yourself rowing and wise folks on this board will give you tips. A trainer at the gym is likely to understand the basics, but is far from an ideal source of rowing info. I've only seen one trainer at my gym (a large YMCA) that seems to understand proper rowing form. The rest are doing more harm than good.

[jamesg]

If you row long relaxed strokes against low drag, the erg is unlikely to cause back problems. I must say using my erg solved them; they were due to 8 hours desk a day and bad posture, while ½h erg was enough get over it. While I can think that much erg might solve such problems and avoid others, thanks to better strength, fitness and flexibility, I can't see 2% of my 24h causing any.

Some tests to see where backpain originates can be of help; if I get any, I twist round to look backwards a few times, both sides, and this cures it instantly, which evidently means the spine needed loosening up. Same effect from kayak, X-country skiing (old style), stairs, walking and bikes. Coffee helps too, it's a relaxant. Beyond this type of anecdote, it's best to see a doctor if it gets severe. I once saw a placard on a doc's wall, saying there are 800 possible causes of backache; he said some are more common than others, if it's any comfort.

[T_B]

I'd try rowing w/o straps. You can also post a short video of yourself rowing and wise folks on this board will give you tips. A trainer at the gym is likely to understand the basics, but is far from an ideal source of rowing info. I've only seen one trainer at my gym (a large YMCA) that seems to understand proper rowing form. The rest are doing more harm than good.

Will try to make a youtube video that shows my technique. The strapless tip was already something I was planning to do. Have some backpain now (mostly because of playing some soccer yesterday) so will take at least a few days before I can row a new session.

[T_B]

If you row long relaxed strokes against low drag, the erg is unlikely to cause back problems. I must say using my erg solved them; they were due to 8 hours desk a day and bad posture, while ½h erg was enough get over it. While I can think that much erg might solve such problems and avoid others, thanks to better strength, fitness and flexibility, I can't see 2% of my 24h causing any.

Some tests to see where backpain originates can be of help; if I get any, I twist round to look backwards a few times, both sides, and this cures it instantly, which evidently means the spine needed loosening up. Same effect from kayak, X-country skiing (old style), stairs, walking and bikes. Coffee helps too, it's a relaxant. Beyond this type of anecdote, it's best to see a doctor if it gets severe. I once saw a placard on a doc's wall, saying there are 800 possible causes of backache; he said some are more common than others, if it's any comfort.

5 minutes is already giving me back issues so 30 minutes will take a while (if even possible). I don't think my drag is very high but I might be rowing a bit too fast. At first I rowed appr. 1000 Mtr in 5 minutes and the last rowing session was 800-850 (due to some backpain). Damper is on 4.
I am not the flexible 20 year old that I used to be I am 46 years old. Low back pain is pretty common at my age so I don't think going to a doctor will help me. My father had the same when he was my age.

Trying to keep up my fitness level. Rowing seems to do more harm than good currently, so are now looking for a better method/idea. Still interested in SkiErg, might post a separate thread in the SkiErg section.

[truth1ness]

Does your back pain involve any shooting/burning/throbbing out and downwards to your butt/leg/feet (ie nerve related)? And have you been playing soccer a long time?

Assuming the answer to your first question is no, many soccer players develop an anterior pelvic tilt which might be your issue. Basically your low back hits its end range backwards too soon because your pelvis is tilted forward crushing the structures in the back. If you're not doing core exercises they will go a long way to helping with this. Also, hip flexor stretches are a big part of this so really stretch them out.

Posting a video will help a lot, both with your form and posture.

[kayakr]

My low back was my limiting factor as well for a while but is not any more.

The things you mention were the the main help, plus some more. Strapless, low damper, not leaning back too far, not leaning too far forward, core expercises (especially front, back, side planks, bridge and v yoga poses), stretching (child, baby, cat poses, hamstring, glutes), warmup, not going too fast.

The other things include especially power work and learning how to "hang off" the handle. Using a 10k pace and periodically dropping down the SPM but keeping the pace the same (24->22->20->18->16). Avoiding slack by keeping the handle level. Engaging the whole body strongly on the catch. (I sometimes say "stroke" in my mind) The lower SPM work help teach you how to do this better. Plenty of rest days. Intervals of say 500m with 1-2 minutes rest where you walk around and relax the back during the rest period.

[T_B]

Does your back pain involve any shooting/burning/throbbing out and downwards to your butt/leg/feet (ie nerve related)? And have you been playing soccer a long time?

Pain is a sore and stiff feeling. Sometimes is the pain seems to burn a bit downwards but no numbness in my leg or shooting pain. It is more uncomfortable than painful. Played soccer for on/off 30 years or so.

Posting a video will help a lot, both with your form and posture.

Yes, will post a video. Will probably post one this weekend.

[T_B]

My low back was my limiting factor as well for a while but is not any more.

The things you mention were the the main help, plus some more. Strapless, low damper, not leaning back too far, not leaning too far forward, core expercises (especially front, back, side planks, bridge and v yoga poses), stretching (child, baby, cat poses, hamstring, glutes), warmup, not going too fast.

The other things include especially power work and learning how to "hang off" the handle. Using a 10k pace and periodically dropping down the SPM but keeping the pace the same (24->22->20->18->16). Avoiding slack by keeping the handle level. Engaging the whole body strongly on the catch. (I sometimes say "stroke" in my mind) The lower SPM work help teach you how to do this better. Plenty of rest days. Intervals of say 500m with 1-2 minutes rest where you walk around and relax the back during the rest period.

I usually not drop speed below 26. Don't think I will manage to keep up this pace strapless so I expect this will automatically force myself to row slower.
Interesting suggestions and encouraging to read that it worked out for you.

BTW I am interested what you mean by plenty of rest days. How does your schedule looks like?

[Bob S.]

I usually not drop speed below 26. Don't think I will manage to keep up this pace strapless so I expect this will automatically force myself to row slower.

Yes, 26 can be a problem when you first try strapless. 20 and lower should be OK. It doesn't take very long to get used to rowing strapless and you can quickly get up to 26 and higher with practice. As for rowing at lower rates, especially with a back problem, don't try to maintain the same pace that you get at 26. Expect the pace to be considerably slower and just get the feel of it.

Use of slides or the dynamic also help with back problems and it is much easier to row strapless at high rates with a non-static machine.

Bob S.

[kayakr]

schedule: I started of rowing 4-6 days a week with 30 minutes - 10k. Currently I'm doing 2-4 days a week, something like 500 x 8, 2k x 3 and 10k on alternate days.

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[sentinal93]

I also had low back pain that has been limiting me from erging. In my case, I have very tight hamstrings, so general over-reliance on my lower back for lifting and bending is starting to result in pain. Additionally, I did some muscular damage a year or two ago during a deadlift session where I was feeling particularly strong.

In any case, i've found a proper warmup and cooldown to be the only things that's helped - specifically running. It must be something with the motion that helps to relax my back muscles for erging. I need to do at least 8-10 minutes for both warmup and cooldown, so 1-2 miles has become my standard. Like I said, my issue is muscular, so this may not help if it's something skeletal or spine-specific.

[T_B]

Hi again!
I have been more actively playing soccer since my last post (and other non sport related activities) - so didn't bother anymore with rowing. Now I have stopped playing outdoor soccer mainly due to arthritis in toe joint - so trying to start rowing again to keep my fitness level up. Of course I want to avoid issues with my back and started with a plan that is not too challenging for my back and a very low drag (83) and rowing strapless.

My training plan for the next few weeks (rowpro)

W1
2000 3X - 3000 1 (18-22spm) done
W2
2000 3000 4000 (18-22 spm)
W3
20 min 20 min 25 min (23-26 spm)
W4
20 min (23-26 spm) 20 min (2x2'r2') 25 min (23-26 spm)

Below the video I promised to post two years ago Any comments on my technique?

http://vimeo.com/117720885

[hjs]

Hi again!
I have been more actively playing soccer since my last post (and other non sport related activities) - so didn't bother anymore with rowing. Now I have stopped playing outdoor soccer mainly due to arthritis in toe joint - so trying to start rowing again to keep my fitness level up. Of course I want to avoid issues with my back and started with a plan that is not too challenging for my back and a very low drag (83) and rowing strapless.

My training plan for the next few weeks (rowpro)

W1
2000 3X - 3000 1 (18-22spm) done
W2
2000 3000 4000 (18-22 spm)
W3
20 min 20 min 25 min (23-26 spm)
W4
20 min (23-26 spm) 20 min (2x2'r2') 25 min (23-26 spm)

Below the video I promised to post two years ago Any comments on my technique?

http://vimeo.com/117720885

Point one, you don,t move you back at all, stbthe catch your chest should be way close to your thighs.
And at the backstop you don,t have a layback. It should be 1 oclock to 11 oclock. Thay way the stroke is longer.
Knees, to compensate for the lack of backmovement you overreach the knees. You go beyond vertical.
And overall, you don,t use the legs, back, arms order, but overlap those movements way to early.
Also rowing strapless is harder on the back. So maybe for you atm not so handy.