Protein Supplements

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » October 15th, 2004, 4:14 am

Hello! Is there anyone who can give me an insight about protein supplements for rowing/erging? Mostly, about health benefits and/or counter indications, please. I would appreciate! Thanks, AM

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » October 15th, 2004, 10:49 am

it seems that there are two competing schools of thought. Those that say you don't need that much protein and those who will argue that you need to consume a lot of protein. I'm of the school that if you are an athlete and you engage in any resistance style activity, you should be eating more protein than the average person for recovery and muscle repair. I use whey protein supplements in addition to the protein I get from skinless chicken breasts, fish, and lean red meat. I also get protein from egg whites, beans (although you need to eat it with rice to get the full amino acid profile), yogurt, low fat cottage cheese, and skim milk. A good rule of thumb if you're an athlete. 1g/ pound of bodyweight. If you're trying to bulk up (put on lean muscle mass) up it to 1.5g/pound of bodyweight. You may also want to consider that not all proteins are the same - there are some proteins that the body can utilize more efficiently than others. So the choice of protein can also become key. For example, you should never eat any fatty foods immediately post-workout. Why? The fat impedes nutritient absorption. You are better off drinking some with high-glycemic carbs (like Gatorade or a 20% grape juice and water combination, combined with a scoop or two of whey protein powder. ) This will insure that the body's blood sugar levels are stabilized, and the relatively quick turnover of whey protein (as compared with solid food) means that the muscles get the fuel they need to begin the recovery process almost immediately and avoids unnecessary muscle catabolism. You can then eat a solid meal rich in carbs and protein about 60-90 minutes after that. Hope that helps.. D P.S. If you're looking for a good powder I highly recommend. Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey - the chocolate flavor when mixed with skim milk tastes exactly like Nestle's Quik.. it's also instantized so you don't need a blender! (I sound like a commercial, don't I??)

[old] brianric · Post by **[old] brianric** » October 15th, 2004, 3:00 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (DIESEL @ Oct 15 2004, 09:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> iA good rule of thumb if you're an athlete. 1g/ pound of bodyweight. If you're trying to bulk up (put on lean muscle mass) up it to 1.5g/pound of bodyweight.  </td></tr></table> Shouldn't that be based on per Kg vers Lb? 1 g per pound is a lot of protien.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » October 15th, 2004, 6:19 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (brianric)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Shouldn't that be based on per Kg vers Lb? 1 g per pound is a lot of protien.  </td></tr></table> Not really if you are a hard training athlete and you are dividing it up into 6-7 smaller meals throughout the day.

[old] gman953 · Post by **[old] gman953** » October 15th, 2004, 6:58 pm

Are protein supplements safe? I was looking at them a lil bit alot of people at my high school use them(not sure about crew people). I am trying to build muscle mass for the spring season I have been going to the weight room mostly every day. Also would it help after practice or training to make muscles not so sore. But I am basically just trying to get stronger now, and hopefully I will get a shiny model d for an early x mas present. Can anyone give me feedback about basically when to take them, are they safe, will they really help, and where I could buy them in the US or would I have to order them online. Thanx for your responses.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » October 16th, 2004, 11:53 am

protein supplements from reputable companies are safe. (Optimum Nutrition, EAS, Labrada, Met-RX (although their product tastes like crap) are among the best brands) if you want to build muscle mass you have to consume more calories than you are burning per day. However, you have to eat clean (i.e. no sugary, greasy junk food) make muscles not so sore.... no ... no supplement can really do that. you can order them online cheaply or go to your local GNC and get ripped off.. just do a search on Google and look for the lowest price. Here's a hint - generally the vanilla flavors are horrible. Stick with the strawberry or chocolate flavors. They are best taken in between meals and immediately before and after your workouts. The bulk of your calories should stlll be coming from solid food sources.. hope this helps D

[old] brianric · Post by **[old] brianric** » October 16th, 2004, 3:09 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (DIESEL @ Oct 15 2004, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (brianric)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Shouldn't that be based on per Kg vers Lb? 1 g per pound is a lot of protien.  </td></tr></table> Not really if you are a hard training athlete and you are dividing it up into 6-7 smaller meals throughout the day.  </td></tr></table> Sorry, I'm not buying that. Please point to a reputable source for your values.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » October 16th, 2004, 7:33 pm

brian, it doesn't really matter to me if you believe me or not, and I'm not going to go and do medical research so you'll believe me. Do what you want, I could care less either way. A protein supplement in addition to your normal diet will not hurt you. Neither will eating 1g / protein per pound if you are rowing and lifting, or doing any kind of regular strenuous exercise.

[old] Fesse-a-l'os · Post by **[old] Fesse-a-l'os** » October 16th, 2004, 8:36 pm

Protein is one of the three calorie containing nutrients. The best sources come from meats, fish and dairy products. It is also found in legumes, nuts and other plant sources. Recommended grams of protein/pound of body weight/day are: RDA for sedentary adult 0.4 gm. Adult recreational exerciser 0.5 – 0.75 gm Adult competitive athlete 0.6 – 0.9 gm Growing teenage athlete 0.9 – 1.0 gm Most people (sedentary and moderately active individuals) can get enough protein in their diets, eliminating the need for protein supplementation. Athletes generally eat more than sedentary people, therefore getting the extra nutrients through their extra food intake, but they may need extra supplementation. No one ever grew a gram of muscle from simply gulping protein. Muscles grow from pushing poundage – period. Despite what the supplement ads imply, it is not protein intake that controls muscle growth, but rather the demands for growth caused by the trauma of intense exercise. Protein does nothing to stimulate growth. It simply provides the building materials. So remember, if you want the gains, exercise is the key that creates the demand for new structure. If, and only if, you are doing intense strength or speed workouts (over 3 hours per day), then there is evidence that high protein intake does yield greater muscle growth. Athletes may get enhanced results from pre-digested proteins (hydrolysates) that are rich in dipeptides and tripeptides. Athletes will want to choose protein sources such as egg albumin and lactalbumin (whey protein), rather than milk or soy protein. Excess protein may be converted to body fat. In addition, excessive protein intake results in a greater increase of health problems such as gout and kidney failure. Anyways, that's my opinion. Food for thought, so to speak.

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » October 18th, 2004, 5:15 am

Thanks for the replys, all of you! I would like to say, however, that I am more the kind of "moderated" guy that thinks an aswer like the one of fesse-a-l'os is nice. AM

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » October 18th, 2004, 11:23 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Fesse-a-l'os @ Oct 16 2004, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>  </td></tr></table> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Recommended grams of protein/pound of body weight/day are: RDA for sedentary adult 0.4 gm. Adult recreational exerciser 0.5 – 0.75 gm Adult competitive athlete 0.6 – 0.9 gm Growing teenage athlete 0.9 – 1.0 gm  </td></tr></table> Recommended by who? The FDA? The same people who came up with that inane food pyramid? This is just as arbitrary as my saying 1g/# of bodyweight. The whole point is that we don't know exactly how much you really need. All we know is this - your body breaks down muscle when exercise and you need protein to repair it. If you do weightlifting AND rowing - you are going to need more protein than the average person. My personal experience tells me that I make great gains in strength and muscle mass when I go over 1g/protein per #, some people may not need that much. The point is that you have to experiment with it. But I don't think that 30-40g extra protein a day is going to kill you. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Muscles grow from pushing poundage – period.  </td></tr></table> Not quite. muscles grow from resting and feeding the body with adequate nutrients. Pushing poundage is merely a STIMULUS, not a direct effect. muscles don't grow out of thin air... you can push iron all you want, but if you don't eat enough (a surplus of carbs and proteins above your metabolic rate w/caloric costs of exercise thrown in ) you will not grow muscles - period. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Despite what the supplement ads imply, it is not protein intake that controls muscle growth, but rather the demands for growth caused by the trauma of intense exercise. </td></tr></table> Actually, it's both. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Protein does nothing to stimulate growth. </td></tr></table> Of course it does. Pushing iron stimulates growth - but the muscles won't actually react to the stimilus (i.e. muscle growth) without an adequate protein supply. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> It simply provides the building materials.  </td></tr></table> Yes. Precisely! <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> So remember, if you want the gains, exercise is the key that creates the demand for new structure.  </td></tr></table> but of course, without proper nutrition the demand for new growth will never satisfied. If anything the body will catabolize itself to stabilize itself after intense exercise and then not giving it adequate calories for recovery. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Excess protein may be converted to body fat. In addition, excessive protein intake results in a greater increase of health problems such as gout and kidney failure.  </td></tr></table> Again, what is "excessive?" three grams/#, 2grams/# ... I'm not telling the man to eat 600g of protein a day. I highly doubt eating 200g of protein a day - if you are exercising 5-6 days a week, and splitting it over 5-6 meals is going to have adverse health effects like gout and kidney failure.

[old] gman953 · Post by **[old] gman953** » October 21st, 2004, 10:57 pm

I bought some of the optium 100% whey and it says on the side of the container to take 1 gram per pound, which would be 6 scoops(150 lbs) of powder because each scoop is 24 grams. Am I doing something wrong. I just took 1 scoop and 8 fl oz of water after I worked out to play it safe. Thats what alot of people have been telling me to do. I work out in the morning around 630 and then have school after so I can not really break it up durring the day. Thanx for the help

[old] KMurphy · Post by **[old] KMurphy** » October 22nd, 2004, 12:44 am

I would factor in how many grams of protein you are getting from your diet and subtract that out. So if you want to try and target 150g/day of protein I would start by seeing how much of that you can get into your normal diet without straining too hard to change your diet habits (unless of course they are already bad to begin with). If one scoop is 24 grams I would try to get a good 100g of your protein from your diet (tuna, chicken, beans, peanut butter, cottage cheese, eggs or whatever). Then take your 2 scoops of protein powder per day to put you to your target. Say one scoop after your workout and one before bed or some other reasonable pattern. KMurphy

[old] gman953 · Post by **[old] gman953** » October 22nd, 2004, 1:12 pm

thanx a ton I try to eat semi healthy but being a teenager its kind of hard to do that sometimes , but I will try the scoop before bed and a scoop after I work out

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » October 22nd, 2004, 1:32 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I bought some of the optium 100% whey and it says on the side of the container to take 1 gram per pound, which would be 6 scoops(150 lbs) of powder because each scoop is 24 grams. Am I doing something wrong. I just took 1 scoop and 8 fl oz of water after I worked out to play it safe. Thats what alot of people have been telling me to do. I work out in the morning around 630 and then have school after so I can not really break it up durring the day. Thanx for the help </td></tr></table> You should be getting most of your protein from solid food. Whey powder is not meant as a "substitute" for real food. That's why it's called a "supplement." Basically you should be taking whey protein BEFORE and IMMEDIATELY AFTER your workouts - when your body can better absorb protein in its liquid form. Pretty much everything outside of that "workout window" should be solid food. BEFORE WORKOUT = 1 scoop with a glass skim milk and a piece of fruit. AFTER WORKOUT = 2 - 3 SCOOPS IN 8 OZ. WATER (depending on body weight, since you are lighter, go with 2) , MAKE ANOTHER LIQUID DRINK CONTAINING SOMETHING WITH GLUCOSE - you can buy a specialized powder like cytomax, or you can make your own with natural grape juice (about 60-80g of carbs worth ) then dilute it with water. Other than that, the rest of your calories should come from solid food.

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