Some help for a newbie please! *long post*

[Syntaxio]

Hi,

I wasn't really sure where to put this but I figured this section would probably be the best place.


To start with a little bit about me:

I'm about 6'2" and weigh about 235 pounds currently. This is definitely not my ideal weight but I originally weighed 360 lbs or so (I'm not sure on an exact number - the scales I had when I was at my largest did not go up high enough) and is a definite improvement from where I was.

I lost weight through diet and exercise - I took a year off after graduating from school. I mainly used a stationary bike at home (used it twice a day for 30 mins but I started much slower.) I ended up joining a gym almost a year ago and although my gym habits are not the worst (I usually go 5 days a week) I haven't lost much weight in that time (my scale will sometimes say my weight has changed by as much as 3-5 pounds in any given week - same time of day mind you.)

Something I wanted to mention which may, or may not, be relevant is that my testosterone levels have been said to be low as of late (according to my doctor.) Not sure what effect, if any, this would have on losing weight/building muscle (I'm on a supplement but may be switching from gel to injection if an increased dosage doesn't help.)

My nutrition, I feel, isn't *terrible*. I don't eat much in the way of fast food or junk food. I could be eating less though (I try to only eat when I feel hungry but I do have snacks.) I feel like my snacking could be a big problem for me (I try to have 100 calorie snacks but think I should switch to something less artificial.) I also tend to eat if I feel hungry. I did try recording everything I ate for a few months but this had no effect on my ability to lose weight (and I ended up night time sleep eating - still going on sort of.)



Anywho, while using the cardio machines I feel like I get/put in a good effort. The calories burned display usually reads 600-1500 per hour (the 1500 I don't really believe) depending on which machine I use (some ellipticals like the arc really overestimate calories burned I find.)


The rowing machine has always fascinated me...I've watched others use it at the gym and wasn't really convinced that you could get a good workout using it but after doing some research I realized this was not the case at all. I also decided that I would really like to learn to use the machine effectively for myself.

I watched videos on form and did some research into drag factor. I was able to find and adjust the drag factor to about 120.

I watched more videos and had, what I thought was, a good workout. At the end of it I felt pretty tired, my legs were sore, and I had burned about 450 calories in 50 minutes (according to the display thingy - which I know is probably an overestimation.)

I was doing some reading that night though and found out that my average/500 m was absolutely abysmal (3:02/500 m.) So I looked into my form and tried to see places where I might be going wrong. Tried adjusting the straps. Read information about the force curve. All of which just seemed to indicate that I must be doing something horribly wrong.

The average power I get is something like 60-100 watts. In addition my force curve's peak is *very* low compared to the pictures I've looked at online. I've tried pushing off with my legs strong right at the start and that does very little to modify the force curve. Even if I "cheat" and pull with my arms (the way most people I watch at the gym do) I don't get very high peaks - but I can get higher powers that way.

Now judging from what I've read my power is very low for someone of my height (or at all period) and I have no idea what to try to fix it.

TLDR: I have some questions.

1.) My power, time/500 m, and force curve peak are all low. Is there something I can do to increase these? I've watched technique videos (I can't really video tape myself and am kinda shy to go to a rowing club - the second one is an option if no one has any other suggestions.) I feel like I may be using some of my leg power to push the seat back quick (not sure how to fix that.)

2.) I usually use gym equipment for a fair amount of time, feel pretty tired, and feel like I eat decently well (could obviously be better.) Is being super strict with diet really the only recourse to lose weight at this point? - I don't know anyone who has recently described me as fat but my waist is 40 inches in dress pants which *I* consider fat.

3.) Does anyone know what the effect of lower testosterone has on weight/fat storage? I've heard it can make it harder to lose weight but maybe that's just me making excuses.

4.) Is rowing on an indoor rower a good method to help me lose 30 pounds or so (I'd like to be 200lbs ideally.)

5.) I printed out the weight loss program using the interactive schedule thing on the concept web site. Good program to use or should I try to follow something else?


Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read/reply.

[jamesg]

To row effectively, whatever your aim (moving boats fast, getting fit, losing weight or any other) the stroke itself has to be effective, which means there has to be a largish amount of work done during every single one, with good connection from legs to handle. It's all down to technique.

Work is an engineering term, and is the product of Length and Force. Both are essential, but length comes relatively cheap in terms of effort. So the first thing to do is to make sure you're pulling full length strokes: your hands will get right near the chainguard. To do this easily, it helps if you use the right recovery sequence: at the finish, hands away first, then swing forward, then move the slide, slowly. The back stop drill helps to see what's happening: first pull arms only for a minute or so, then add swing, then after another another minute start to lift knees (after the swing forward, so that your hands first clear your knees easily) then gradually increase knee lift until you reach the chain guard. During this process, you'll see the rating drop from 60 to 20 and the Watts increase from 50 to 200.

If you don't do this, your stroke will be short, so with little work in it. If it's short, the legs, where the real muscle is, can't do much work, and you'll see this in the numbers: dividing your Watt output by the stroke rate gives you the amount of work in the stroke. If you're aged under 40, and the ratio is less than ten, improving your stroke is the key to the Rowing.

NB this type of stroke is very hard work, as you'll notice. We keep the rating down to stay within our long-term power limits.

The weight loss program is fine, it has as much work in it as you'll ever need or want to do. However it's main effect will be to get you fit, despite the name.

If interested, this is what rowing looks like:

http://www.britishrowing.org/taking-par ... ing-stroke

Note the extension at the catch, and that the blades are in the water for as short a time as possible: boats, like flywheels, keep going if we let them and if the stroke was a good one. Low drag will let you simulate the rowing action.

[hjs]

On other machines what power output do you get. 3.00 is indeed slow. It proberly is technique, but also fitness. i think you should do interval a few times a week. Things like row 500 meter rest a minute, or row one minute rest a minute. Try to row every rep faster till you can,t anymore.
The force curve only gets higher whn the stroke gets stronger

2 How do you eat, enough protein and fat? Carbs dhould be modest and only complex. 1 day a week more losely is often ok. Search for refeeding.

3 That is bad, the higher, natural, that level is the fitter one can become. Loosing weight and not esting enough fat does both lower testosteron levels.

4 yes, but loosing weight is 80 % eating. Doing weights will also help, build muscle.

5 could be, but given your current pace you should first turn that around. Learn to work harder, not just longer.

1.) My power, time/500 m, and force curve peak are all low. Is there something I can do to increase these? I've watched technique videos (I can't really video tape myself and am kinda shy to go to a rowing club - the second one is an option if no one has any other suggestions.) I feel like I may be using some of my leg power to push the seat back quick (not sure how to fix that.)

2.) I usually use gym equipment for a fair amount of time, feel pretty tired, and feel like I eat decently well (could obviously be better.) Is being super strict with diet really the only recourse to lose weight at this point? - I don't know anyone who has recently described me as fat but my waist is 40 inches in dress pants which *I* consider fat.

3.) Does anyone know what the effect of lower testosterone has on weight/fat storage? I've heard it can make it harder to lose weight but maybe that's just me making excuses.

4.) Is rowing on an indoor rower a good method to help me lose 30 pounds or so (I'd like to be 200lbs ideally.)

5.) I printed out the weight loss program using the interactive schedule thing on the concept web site. Good program to use or should I try to follow something else?


Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read/reply.

[MF955]

Hello,

I have read through several of the weight loss topics on this forum and am hopeful that some of the competition focused forum members will entertain observations from an exercise focused rower.

I purchased my Erg in the late 90's and struggled to find the correct technique. At the time I was interested in an exercise to replace running during the winter months. After finding the online forum I noticed that my best times were not even close to those posted. I wrote into the forum and obtained all kinds of advice on damper setting, drag factor, and rowing style. Several contributors suggested I would do better rowing without shoes (that just hurt my feet). Another suggested that if your stroke was correct you should row without using the straps on your feet. The theory being if you pull hard enough you can just pull yourself back to the start of your stroke. All of this competition type advice left me extremely sore and very frustrated. After a row I would be stricken with lower back pain and wouldn't be able to stand up straight for 20 or 30 minutes after rowing. I quit using the Erg for awhile and even loaned it out to friends, but thankfully they kept giving it back.

I eventually looked at the postings from people posting really competitive times, most were quite tall with a much longer stroke and lower stroke rate. I am 5'8" and row with a damper setting of 10 and a SPM that ranges fom 28 to 30. My approach is not to pull super hard or fast like a sprinter, but to pull steady for distance to burn calories. In this way I don't injure myself and can row everyday. No joint problems and no strained muscles.

With that said, I'd like to comment on diet. A few years ago I returned to graduate school and stopped exercising. Over time I ballooned up to 230 pounds. I coudn't walk a flight of stairs without breathing heavy and could not jog for more than a couple minutes. On July 22, 2012 I decided that it was time for a change. I started out slowly by cutting my diet to one meal a day and only drank water. I eat fresh vegetables and chicken or fish only. No bread, grains, or sugars. I exchanged 3 meals a day for 3 workouts a day. I row for an hour every morning, run for 30 minutes at lunch, and lift weights every evening. In ten (10) weeks I lost 50 pounds. I am never hungry during the day, have no desire for snacks, and have not suffered any injuries. I am almost 50 and can lift as much weight as I did during my teenage years and can complete 3 mile runs at a 8:20 pace daily. I still have about 20 pounds to go but it has not been a struggle in anyway to maintain the diet or the exercise program.

A week ago a coworker commented on my weight loss and wondered what diet I was on. I related the information above and their comment was "Oh, you're on the Wheat Belly diet." I didn't know what that was, but a quick Internet search led me to the book entitled Wheat Belly by William Davis, MD ISBN 978-1-60961-154-5. After reading the book I quickly learned why my whole wheat diet at graduate school had the opposite effect of what I wanted and why I had lost any cravings for snacks when I cut bread and cereal out of my diet.

Read the book, row at your own pace, add variety to your exercise program, and enjoy life.

Best regards,

Mike

[Syntaxio]

On other machines what power output do you get. 3.00 is indeed slow. It proberly is technique, but also fitness. i think you should do interval a few times a week. Things like row 500 meter rest a minute, or row one minute rest a minute. Try to row every rep faster till you can,t anymore.
The force curve only gets higher whn the stroke gets stronger

2 How do you eat, enough protein and fat? Carbs dhould be modest and only complex. 1 day a week more losely is often ok. Search for refeeding.

3 That is bad, the higher, natural, that level is the fitter one can become. Loosing weight and not esting enough fat does both lower testosteron levels.

4 yes, but loosing weight is 80 % eating. Doing weights will also help, build muscle.

5 could be, but given your current pace you should first turn that around. Learn to work harder, not just longer.

1.) My power, time/500 m, and force curve peak are all low. Is there something I can do to increase these? I've watched technique videos (I can't really video tape myself and am kinda shy to go to a rowing club - the second one is an option if no one has any other suggestions.) I feel like I may be using some of my leg power to push the seat back quick (not sure how to fix that.)

2.) I usually use gym equipment for a fair amount of time, feel pretty tired, and feel like I eat decently well (could obviously be better.) Is being super strict with diet really the only recourse to lose weight at this point? - I don't know anyone who has recently described me as fat but my waist is 40 inches in dress pants which *I* consider fat.

3.) Does anyone know what the effect of lower testosterone has on weight/fat storage? I've heard it can make it harder to lose weight but maybe that's just me making excuses.

4.) Is rowing on an indoor rower a good method to help me lose 30 pounds or so (I'd like to be 200lbs ideally.)

5.) I printed out the weight loss program using the interactive schedule thing on the concept web site. Good program to use or should I try to follow something else?


Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read/reply.

On ellipticals I usually get a power of 250-300. I don't really know if their is a power setting for treadmills or stationary bicycles. I would say I'm fairly fit but definitely wouldn't argue that it could be better.

I think diet wise I could definitely improve. I eat a fair amount of protein and have always avoided eating too much fat. Probably eat too many carbs. I saw something about refeeding in the context of dieting and I assume that's what you meant for me to find - there's also something called refeeding syndrome which is a treatment to help anorexics.

Well that's unfortunate. I can't do anything really to increase my natural testosterone production.

I've tried lifting weights but never really put on any significant amount of muscle. I'm definitely more "husky" but you can't really see any muscle definition.

Thanks for the reply. Lots to consider.

Hello,

I have read through several of the weight loss topics on this forum and am hopeful that some of the competition focused forum members will entertain observations from an exercise focused rower.

I purchased my Erg in the late 90's and struggled to find the correct technique. At the time I was interested in an exercise to replace running during the winter months. After finding the online forum I noticed that my best times were not even close to those posted. I wrote into the forum and obtained all kinds of advice on damper setting, drag factor, and rowing style. Several contributors suggested I would do better rowing without shoes (that just hurt my feet). Another suggested that if your stroke was correct you should row without using the straps on your feet. The theory being if you pull hard enough you can just pull yourself back to the start of your stroke. All of this competition type advice left me extremely sore and very frustrated. After a row I would be stricken with lower back pain and wouldn't be able to stand up straight for 20 or 30 minutes after rowing. I quit using the Erg for awhile and even loaned it out to friends, but thankfully they kept giving it back.

I eventually looked at the postings from people posting really competitive times, most were quite tall with a much longer stroke and lower stroke rate. I am 5'8" and row with a damper setting of 10 and a SPM that ranges fom 28 to 30. My approach is not to pull super hard or fast like a sprinter, but to pull steady for distance to burn calories. In this way I don't injure myself and can row everyday. No joint problems and no strained muscles.

With that said, I'd like to comment on diet. A few years ago I returned to graduate school and stopped exercising. Over time I ballooned up to 230 pounds. I coudn't walk a flight of stairs without breathing heavy and could not jog for more than a couple minutes. On July 22, 2012 I decided that it was time for a change. I started out slowly by cutting my diet to one meal a day and only drank water. I eat fresh vegetables and chicken or fish only. No bread, grains, or sugars. I exchanged 3 meals a day for 3 workouts a day. I row for an hour every morning, run for 30 minutes at lunch, and lift weights every evening. In ten (10) weeks I lost 50 pounds. I am never hungry during the day, have no desire for snacks, and have not suffered any injuries. I am almost 50 and can lift as much weight as I did during my teenage years and can complete 3 mile runs at a 8:20 pace daily. I still have about 20 pounds to go but it has not been a struggle in anyway to maintain the diet or the exercise program.

A week ago a coworker commented on my weight loss and wondered what diet I was on. I related the information above and their comment was "Oh, you're on the Wheat Belly diet." I didn't know what that was, but a quick Internet search led me to the book entitled Wheat Belly by William Davis, MD ISBN 978-1-60961-154-5. After reading the book I quickly learned why my whole wheat diet at graduate school had the opposite effect of what I wanted and why I had lost any cravings for snacks when I cut bread and cereal out of my diet.

Read the book, row at your own pace, add variety to your exercise program, and enjoy life.

Best regards,

Mike

Thanks for all these suggestions. I'll see if I can't find the book at the library and give it a quick read. I was able to find some of the details on the internet but still wouldn't mind reading the book for myself.

I'd like to fix my technique so I'm at least doing respectably though. I've read suggestions like what you have mentioned as well but they don't seem to help me. I feel like I'm definitely doing something wrong.

To row effectively, whatever your aim (moving boats fast, getting fit, losing weight or any other) the stroke itself has to be effective, which means there has to be a largish amount of work done during every single one, with good connection from legs to handle. It's all down to technique.

Work is an engineering term, and is the product of Length and Force. Both are essential, but length comes relatively cheap in terms of effort. So the first thing to do is to make sure you're pulling full length strokes: your hands will get right near the chainguard. To do this easily, it helps if you use the right recovery sequence: at the finish, hands away first, then swing forward, then move the slide, slowly. The back stop drill helps to see what's happening: first pull arms only for a minute or so, then add swing, then after another another minute start to lift knees (after the swing forward, so that your hands first clear your knees easily) then gradually increase knee lift until you reach the chain guard. During this process, you'll see the rating drop from 60 to 20 and the Watts increase from 50 to 200.

If you don't do this, your stroke will be short, so with little work in it. If it's short, the legs, where the real muscle is, can't do much work, and you'll see this in the numbers: dividing your Watt output by the stroke rate gives you the amount of work in the stroke. If you're aged under 40, and the ratio is less than ten, improving your stroke is the key to the Rowing.

NB this type of stroke is very hard work, as you'll notice. We keep the rating down to stay within our long-term power limits.

The weight loss program is fine, it has as much work in it as you'll ever need or want to do. However it's main effect will be to get you fit, despite the name.

If interested, this is what rowing looks like:

http://www.britishrowing.org/taking-par ... ing-stroke

Note the extension at the catch, and that the blades are in the water for as short a time as possible: boats, like flywheels, keep going if we let them and if the stroke was a good one. Low drag will let you simulate the rowing action.

Thanks for all of this! Especially the pictures.

Maybe I'm bum shoving? I feel like I move the seat faster than the handle quite a bit.

I also probably am not extending the handle as fully as I should be. I find pushing off the footrests to be a bit of a challenge (in that I can't really get my feet to lay flat.) I feel like I mostly am pushing from my toes and can't really push off from my heel (I'm not sure if I should be or not.)

[Bob S.]

Maybe I'm bum shoving? I feel like I move the seat faster than the handle quite a bit.

I also probably am not extending the handle as fully as I should be. I find pushing off the footrests to be a bit of a challenge (in that I can't really get my feet to lay flat.) I feel like I mostly am pushing from my toes and can't really push off from my heel (I'm not sure if I should be or not.)

Bum shoving, or shooting the slide as it is often called, can be a major loss of power. One technique that has been suggested on this forum is to anchor the handle with a rope tied to the frame. Then, from the correct start position (i.e. shins vertical, moderate forward lean, and arms straight), push with your legs hard enough to feel that you are about to rise up off the seat. The point of this is to get a feel for how hard you have to push with the legs. I have not tried this myself, but it was recommended by one of our most reliable forum members, who said that he was given that advice from a rowing coach. I think that one can actually lift off from the seat, but I would worry about it moving out from underneath me.

It is not necessary to have your feet flat on the footboards. A lot of us do not have the flexibility to do that and still have the shins vertical. But it should not be necessary to be up on your toes. I start the drive from the balls of my feet and there is only a brief instant before my heels make contact.

Another factor in getting full extension at the start of the drive is your body angle. You should not have to lean a long way forward, but there should be some forward lean. I have seen 11 o'clock quoted. That would be 30 degrees. Certainly no more than that. I would figure that it should be 15 degrees as a minimum.

Bob S.

[Syntaxio]

Maybe I'm bum shoving? I feel like I move the seat faster than the handle quite a bit.

I also probably am not extending the handle as fully as I should be. I find pushing off the footrests to be a bit of a challenge (in that I can't really get my feet to lay flat.) I feel like I mostly am pushing from my toes and can't really push off from my heel (I'm not sure if I should be or not.)

Bum shoving, or shooting the slide as it is often called, can be a major loss of power. One technique that has been suggested on this forum is to anchor the handle with a rope tied to the frame. Then, from the correct start position (i.e. shins vertical, moderate forward lean, and arms straight), push with your legs hard enough to feel that you are about to rise up off the seat. The point of this is to get a feel for how hard you have to push with the legs. I have not tried this myself, but it was recommended by one of our most reliable forum members, who said that he was given that advice from a rowing coach. I think that one can actually lift off from the seat, but I would worry about it moving out from underneath me.

It is not necessary to have your feet flat on the footboards. A lot of us do not have the flexibility to do that and still have the shins vertical. But it should not be necessary to be up on your toes. I start the drive from the balls of my feet and there is only a brief instant before my heels make contact.

Another factor in getting full extension at the start of the drive is your body angle. You should not have to lean a long way forward, but there should be some forward lean. I have seen 11 o'clock quoted. That would be 30 degrees. Certainly no more than that. I would figure that it should be 15 degrees as a minimum.

Bob S.

I tried to follow your advice about pushing off from the rest of the seat and that helped me a little bit. Wasn't sure what I was supposed to do with the handle though (this isn't my machine I'm using so I can't bring a rope with me but I tried to sort of get the feeling of pushing off without the rope.) For clarity's sake, I should tie the handle to the support?


I tried to follow some of the advice when I went to the gym today.

It was a little bit better. My time averaged 2:30 (which is still *slow* but a step in the right direction) and the power was mostly above 100. I definitely think I should be able to do better then that though...and if I had to guess it's that I'm not really getting as much from my legs as I possibly could.

When I push off from the resting pad I push mostly with the balls of my feets (it feels like the region right below my toes) and by the time my heels make contact I am not able to push much with them.



I was still tired/sweaty at the end of it (I did 3 sets of 12 minutes) but really want to get this form thing down (or at least closer to what it should be.)

[Bob S.]

I tried to follow your advice about pushing off from the rest of the seat and that helped me a little bit. Wasn't sure what I was supposed to do with the handle though (this isn't my machine I'm using so I can't bring a rope with me but I tried to sort of get the feeling of pushing off without the rope.) For clarity's sake, I should tie the handle to the support?

I'm sorry, I can't help you there. As I said, I haven't done it myself and I can't check it out on my own machine any more since I have a dynamic which has movable foot boards as well as a rolling seat. I'll try PMing the member that posted it in the first place (Byron Drachman) to see if he can respond to this. I haven't seen him on the board recently although he used to post quite regularly.

Bob S.

[Byron Drachman]

I tried to follow your advice about pushing off from the rest of the seat and that helped me a little bit. Wasn't sure what I was supposed to do with the handle though (this isn't my machine I'm using so I can't bring a rope with me but I tried to sort of get the feeling of pushing off without the rope.) For clarity's sake, I should tie the handle to the support?

I'm sorry, I can't help you there. As I said, I haven't done it myself and I can't check it out on my own machine any more since I have a dynamic which has movable foot boards as well as a rolling seat. I'll try PMing the member that posted it in the first place (Byron Drachman) to see if he can respond to this. I haven't seen him on the board recently although he used to post quite regularly.

Bob S.

Hi,

Bob asked me if I could dig up this gem. Mel Harbour is a coach who used to post here. I believe the message is that usually when big, fairly strong people don't apply enough power it is because they don''t get connected. I found this posting so useful that I saved it. Here it is:

--snip--It really then depends on what the problem is that you're having with the leg drive. In order to complete the diagnosis you need to understand the concept of connection. When you are in the drive phase of the stroke, you are basically attached to the machine by two points: your hands and your feet. Your body forms a linkage between the two. The instant this strong linkage is destroyed, you will no longer be getting power out of your leg muscles effectively into the handle.

You need to feel this connection all the way through the drive therefore.

--snip--However far more likely is that you are not getting connected. A few ideas:

Use a length of rope wrapped round the handle and chain guard (vertical bit below the monitor) to fix the handle at the catch. Then push with your legs to lift your bum about an inch off the seat (no more). Now hold the position for up to a minute. Do not let your bum rise any higher, or let your bum move backwards away from your heels. This is what being connected feels like. Leave your arms straight - if you bend your arms you will sit back down.

Then put the damper right up on 10 and row at quite a low rate ( 16-18 ). Don't hurry out of frontstops. Try and get the feeling of being light on your seat before you let the seat move away from your heels. You'll need to time the change of direction quite well to do this. Don't worry about being quick through the drive - it's not important.

Then drop the damper back to 3-4 and try and row without using any muscular effort at all. Just hook your weight onto the handle and then let your bodyweight take you backwards. As an extension to this, when you get to 2/3 of the drive done, just put a tiny blip of muscular force in to accelerate the legs and back through to the finish of the stroke together.

Then just build it up from there, but always keep connecting first! No matter how fast you're going (other than a 100m sprint!) it's very rare that you see people coming out of frontstops too slowly.

Mel Harbour

Here is a funny short clip demonstrating the opposite of getting connected:



One easy drill is to start at the catch, keep the forward lean and the arms straight and relaxed and do just a leg drive, being sure to keep the forward lean and the arms straight. That is how the first part of the drive should feel. Slowly slide forward and repeat a bunch of times.

I hope this helps. I know the posting by Mel H. was a big help to me.

Byron

[Bob S.]

Thanks, Byron. This time I will save it in my little C2 file along with all the other stuff on jargon, DF, technique, and so on.

Bob S.

Re the video: That guy can probably lay a claim to a WR in bum shooting - although there is a Mr. Bean video that runs a close second.

Here's another. This guy has also mastered the art of roller coaster hands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydJsHapXEkY

[Syntaxio]

I tried to follow your advice about pushing off from the rest of the seat and that helped me a little bit. Wasn't sure what I was supposed to do with the handle though (this isn't my machine I'm using so I can't bring a rope with me but I tried to sort of get the feeling of pushing off without the rope.) For clarity's sake, I should tie the handle to the support?

I'm sorry, I can't help you there. As I said, I haven't done it myself and I can't check it out on my own machine any more since I have a dynamic which has movable foot boards as well as a rolling seat. I'll try PMing the member that posted it in the first place (Byron Drachman) to see if he can respond to this. I haven't seen him on the board recently although he used to post quite regularly.

Bob S.

Hi,

Bob asked me if I could dig up this gem. Mel Harbour is a coach who used to post here. I believe the message is that usually when big, fairly strong people don't apply enough power it is because they don''t get connected. I found this posting so useful that I saved it. Here it is:

--snip--It really then depends on what the problem is that you're having with the leg drive. In order to complete the diagnosis you need to understand the concept of connection. When you are in the drive phase of the stroke, you are basically attached to the machine by two points: your hands and your feet. Your body forms a linkage between the two. The instant this strong linkage is destroyed, you will no longer be getting power out of your leg muscles effectively into the handle.

You need to feel this connection all the way through the drive therefore.

--snip--However far more likely is that you are not getting connected. A few ideas:

Use a length of rope wrapped round the handle and chain guard (vertical bit below the monitor) to fix the handle at the catch. Then push with your legs to lift your bum about an inch off the seat (no more). Now hold the position for up to a minute. Do not let your bum rise any higher, or let your bum move backwards away from your heels. This is what being connected feels like. Leave your arms straight - if you bend your arms you will sit back down.

Then put the damper right up on 10 and row at quite a low rate ( 16-18 ). Don't hurry out of frontstops. Try and get the feeling of being light on your seat before you let the seat move away from your heels. You'll need to time the change of direction quite well to do this. Don't worry about being quick through the drive - it's not important.

Then drop the damper back to 3-4 and try and row without using any muscular effort at all. Just hook your weight onto the handle and then let your bodyweight take you backwards. As an extension to this, when you get to 2/3 of the drive done, just put a tiny blip of muscular force in to accelerate the legs and back through to the finish of the stroke together.

Then just build it up from there, but always keep connecting first! No matter how fast you're going (other than a 100m sprint!) it's very rare that you see people coming out of frontstops too slowly.

Mel Harbour

Here is a funny short clip demonstrating the opposite of getting connected:



One easy drill is to start at the catch, keep the forward lean and the arms straight and relaxed and do just a leg drive, being sure to keep the forward lean and the arms straight. That is how the first part of the drive should feel. Slowly slide forward and repeat a bunch of times.

I hope this helps. I know the posting by Mel H. was a big help to me.

Byron

If I've read it right I should tie the handle to the chain guard and then try pushing with my legs until I've lifted off the seat?

I hope I don't look as bad as that guy heh. I have definitely seen a few people who look a bit silly using the machine. I'm not sure how I look...the mirror is only such that I can see my head.)



Today was a lot better than yesterday. I averaged 2:19 and 2:25. I found it to be pretty tiring and my legs were pretty sore afterwards. I still feel like I'm not pushing with my full foot but I'm working on it!


Thanks for all the great advice so far guys

[Byron Drachman]

If I've read it right I should tie the handle to the chain guard and then try pushing with my legs until I've lifted off the seat?

Yes. Sometimes a coach will hold the handle for you while you do this drill, but if there is no coach available then you tie the handle to the chain guard. In that case you can put something on the rail so the seat does not slide away. You want to avoid sitting back down thinking the seat is under you when it is not-- suffering the dreaded "rail wedgie."

Connection_drill.jpg (44.97 KiB) Viewed 13803 times

[Syntaxio]

So just a bit of a status update. Things are still going pretty well. Average time is still about 2:06 with power being about 175 or so. Definitely feeling it after using the rower...I'm not sure if my form is still an issue (probably) but things are still in the process of improving so I'm going to see how things go.

[Bob S.]

So just a bit of a status update. Things are still going pretty well. Average time is still about 2:06 with power being about 175 or so. Definitely feeling it after using the rower...I'm not sure if my form is still an issue (probably) but things are still in the process of improving so I'm going to see how things go.

A very solid improvement and I am sure that you can improve further. Form always requires work even for those who have been rowing for a long time. You might benefit from sending in a video of your technique to this forum and the UK forum as well for critiques.

Bob S.