Hitting a heartrate plateau...

[gregsmith01748]

I'm going to be using Greg's method twice a week, and HIIT twice a week.

I think you might be loading up a bit too much on the fast stuff if you use this plan. I suggest that you keep about half of your workouts longish steady state rows (30 to 60 minutes continuous) and do HIIT and intervals a bit more sparingly. The Pete Plan (google it, it's a great plan) lays out a week of training like this

steady state enduarnce row
short intervals
steady state endurance row
long intervals (2Ks or that 3'/1' kind deal)
steady state endurance
hard distance row
rest

If you do too much intense interval work, you'll get some short term gains, but cheat yourself out of real, long term improvements to your endurance.

[Little John]

Think so? Problem with the Pete Plan is that I can only row 4X a week, with 2 more for lifting and one for rest. Any more time committed to exercise, and I may lose my titles as "Dad" and "Husband" (not that bad, but you know what I mean). Do you think it would be worth stretching out his week to a week and a half, or should I consider:

Sunday - Long row
Monday - Lift (chest & triceps)
Tuesday - HIIT
Wed - Rest
Thurs - Lift (back, biceps, legs)
Fri - Long row
Sat - Longer Intervals

Note that at least one of those weekend days is also my Homeowner Day, where I split wood, mow (with a pushmower), lift heavy things, throw slightly less heavy things, and all those other joys of being in debt to the bank.

[carlb]

OK, I'm open to trying that, Greg. Thanks!

When you rest, is it a full stop, or just a slowdown? And do you ramp up to the AT level, or do you include ramp-up to that heartrate as part of your 3 minutes? I ask because it take a little while for me to get up to that level.

You can stop, but it probably feels better to just row slowly.

Don't target a heart rate, target a pace. Pick a pace you know you can use and complete the X reps. Do same pace for all the reps, except last. Each rep get up to that target pace quickly, like in 10 strokes.

For the last rep go as fast as feels good. At the end see where your heart rate went, and look at your average pace for all reps. If HR average is ok then next workout use the average pace as your starting point; otherwise, adjust your pace down. If HR shows it was way to easy then adjust pace to faster then average. You would also want to adjust based on RPE, i.e. if you feel destroyed probably want to go slower next time. This is from Pete's advice.

[gregsmith01748]

Think so? Problem with the Pete Plan is that I can only row 4X a week, with 2 more for lifting and one for rest. Any more time committed to exercise, and I may lose my titles as "Dad" and "Husband" (not that bad, but you know what I mean). Do you think it would be worth stretching out his week to a week and a half, or should I consider:

Sunday - Long row
Monday - Lift (chest & triceps)
Tuesday - HIIT
Wed - Rest
Thurs - Lift (back, biceps, legs)
Fri - Long row
Sat - Longer Intervals

Note that at least one of those weekend days is also my Homeowner Day, where I split wood, mow (with a pushmower), lift heavy things, throw slightly less heavy things, and all those other joys of being in debt to the bank.

I think that all of these plans work for fewer than 6 sessions a week. If you are going to row 4x per week, I'd do 2 long rows, one HIIT and one longer intervals just as you outlined. You might want to think about following your lifting sessions with the long row and then doing intervals the day after, so that you have a bit more recovery time.

I never know what to do about the aerobic benefits of yard work. I generally pretend that I didn't do it and just accept the fact that I'll be a bit tired in the next real workout.

[Little John]

Just a quick update - had some time away from the rower due to travel, I started doing the Hybrid Little John Pete Plan last week.

Mon - Lift Chest
Tue - Endurance Row (i.e. 5x1500m)
Wed - Rest
Thur - Lift Back
Fri - Distance Row (10K)
Sat - Intensity Row (i.e. 8x500m)
Sun - Distance Row (10K)

Definitely feeling like I've accomplished a lot more with those rows, and I'm having NO problem, whatsoever, hitting the higher heart rates! I maxed at 176 bpm last Saturday. Didn't feel crappy from it, which is good, but I still throttled back a bit to bring it under 170. I'm finding the distance rows to be the hardest, just because they're boring. I need to find some quality shows on TV to start recording.

[gregsmith01748]

Looks like a good balance between lifting and rowing. I'm glad you found something that's working for you.

[jamesg]

I'm finding the distance rows to be the hardest, just because they're boring. I need to find some quality shows on TV to start recording.

Out of the pan into the fire as they say.

The pan can be more interesting when doing Wolverine L4 type work for long pieces; no longer LSD, indeed long fast distance rather than long slow distance, but really lovely and highly effective. See the pace/rating tables at the end:

http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/tr ... nePlan.pdf

A quick method for the L4s uses Watts. Just hold the Stroke Work (= net Length x average Force = Watts/Rating = Work done) the same as in a 2k and pull at ratings in the range 16-24 in 10 minute cycles with each rating held for 2 minutes. Typical cycles are 18 20 22 20 18 and 18 20 18 20 18.

We get most benefit here if pulling full length fast strokes with slow recovery, against very low drag.

All numbers within say 10% tolerance. This is the only format I know of that gets anywhere near actually teaching us to row, as well as being a real workout and anything but boring. Maybe there are others.

[Quatroux]

This is the only format I know of that gets anywhere near actually teaching us to row, as well as being a real workout and anything but boring. Maybe there are others.

I'll second that on L4's from the Wolverine Plan (WP). Those that don't row on the water (OTW) might not think there's any benefit to prescribed stroke rates, but they really build power. You are forced to hold the same splits at two or three different stroke rates per workout. You hold each rate for 1-3 minutes which really keeps your attention.

[Little John]

Following up - I'm maintaining the 4-day Pete Plan, doing a good job of rearranging anything to make sure I get 4 rows in during the week. And my original issue of the heartrate is a non-issue, as I'm well into 145-170 neighborhood (depending on the intensity level), but not feeling lousy afterward.

NOW... I was doing an endurance session last night, and messing with different paces, and found that if I upped the pace to ~36 spm (vs. 30-32 spm), I had a lot less need for an "explosive" pull (i.e., I'm maintaining momentum vs stronger individual rows). The technique felt more "right", and it seemed like everything was falling into place. Wonderful, for a minute, then my legs start to weaken significantly and I get fatigued pretty brutally.

Other than the obvious "practice makes perfect", is there something I can do to build endurance? I've been leaving legs out of my lifting routine, it seems like there's plenty of strength there, but I'm open to suggestions.

[buckyswider]

man, i just busted it on the O'Neill test and hit "average". I thought I was better than that!!!