Training Advice - Lack of Improvements

[KipperTheDog]

Hi,

Here is the problem: looking at the C2 Logbook for both my age group and the LW class I am well below average with both my 10K and 2K times. The thought of rowing a 10K in under 40 minutes seems impossible; I'm a bit of a wreck after 44:20! I've checked and double checked by technique (using some recommended videos from this forum) and although it not perfect it’s not bad either: I'm driving with my legs and not firing my backside out!

Any ideas where I could be going wrong or what I could do with my training to try and improve things?

The Facts:
- Machine: C2 Model E / PM4
- DF 120
- Been rowing on a C2 for ~9 months (albeit consistently for the past 3 months)
- Best 10K Time: 44:20 (Average: 2:13/500m)
- Best 2K Time: 7:53 (Average: 1:59/500m)
- 4x 500m Intervals with 30 sec rest): Average 1:51/500m
- Best 500m Time: 1:48
- Age: 36
- Height: 180cm / 5ft 10in
- Weight: 70Kg / 11 Stone (genuinely bang-on the 70Kg mark)
- Slight build / Not that strong / Short Legs (31in inside leg)

My training regime is as follows:
- Monday: 10K (Moderate Intensity)
- Tuesday: 7K (Low Intensity), 4x 500m Intervals (High Intensity), 1K (Low Intensity)
- Wednesday: 10K (Moderate Intensity)
- Thursday: Rest
- Friday: 10K (Moderate/High Intensity)
- Saturday: 7K (Low Intensity), 4x 500m Intervals (High Intensity), 1K (Low Intensity)
- Sunday: Bit of Running/Hiking/etc

I'll hopefully upload a technique video shortly. My gut feels is the issue is tied to my lack of strength: if I go flat out for 500m at 32-34spm the very best time I can get is 1:48... over 200m with a similar stroke rate I can hit 1:38... but that is really pushing things. The PM4 has never shown anything less than 1:38/500m, irrespective of distance.

Hope the above is not too much diatribe!

Andy

[KipperTheDog]

Other info: for anything above 2k I try and keep the stroke rate between 22 and 26. For distances of 2K and below my stroke rate goes up to a max of 34.

Andy

[jvincent]

It looks like you always do 10K for your workouts. On the days you do intervals, do you the three workouts consecutively?

I'm older (46) and heavier (83kg) than you but the same height and my times are quite a bit faster than yours. My routine during the week is to alternate 30 minute rows with intervals and typically I do 10K on the weekend.

It looks like you need to improve your power. To help with that I'd suggest doing more intervals, with a longer rest period. Last year I was doing 8 intervals of 50 sec work / 100 sec rest (active rest) at a 1:40 ish pace for the work periods . I've recently switched to 6 x 500m/2 min rest with a target pace of 1:48 or better for each of the interval pieces.

You describe the relative intensity of your workouts but do you have target times for each row? I generally try to keep a "regular" workout within 5% of my current personal best and will try for a new PB every month or so.

[Cyclingman1]

It looks like you need to improve your power.

I think I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. I think power is more of a given than endurance.
The OP has good power. Rowing a 500m 11 seconds below 2K time. And getting down to 1:38 for 200m (21 sec below 2K). Those differentials relative to current 2K times are far better than I can do. I'm closer to 5 and 11 secs respectively.

I personally like 5K rows at good intensity because they not only contribute to endurance but can be done at a pace that is not too terribly slower than 2K. Given the power of the OP, I believe that 1:54 or so is possible for 2K very soon.

[jvincent]

My power, or maybe strength is a better term, comment was really based on the 500m time and his comments.

For somebody his size who isn't totally new I would have expected something a little faster.

[KipperTheDog]

I also posted on the C2 UK Forum: http://concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23725

Following some advice I did a 500m row in 1:41.3; a significant improvement from by previous 1:48.x PB.

The improvement, as crazy as it sounds, was largely down to a psychological change of heart/mind!

Andy

[jvincent]

I also posted on the C2 UK Forum: http://concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23725

The improvement, as crazy as it sounds, was largely down to a psychological change of heart/mind!

Yep, if you are looking to get better/faster you need to push.

If at the end of your last interval you aren't doubled over gasping for breath, you're not going hard enough.

[Cyclingman1]

Given a 1:41 500m, the 2K and 10K times are really out of whack, esp the 2K. It would seem that 1:50 or so is doable for 2K.

[jvincent]

Took my own advice this morning and decided I was going to try for a new PB at 10K.

Was cruising along at my desired pace until about the 7K mark and I started to die because I set too fast a pace.

Instead of accepting the non-PB time that was going to happen I switched to a pace that would have matched my old PB until I had 750m left and then pushed it hard. New PB by 10 seconds.

Completely out of gas when the counter hit zero.

[hjs]

Rowing a 500m 11 seconds below 2K time. And getting down to 1:38 for 200m (21 sec below 2K). Those differentials relative to current 2K times are far better than I can do. I'm closer to 5 and 11 secs respectively.

If so you lack clearly a lot of power/speed, a 500 meter only 5 seconds slower than a 2k can not be true, you should be able to row the 1k 5 seconds on the average below your 2k and the 500 10/12 seconds. Peakpower should again be faster by a good bit. Given your age and background speed will a weakpoint, but still your numbers are far away from what an average rower can do.

[Cyclingman1]

It is what it is.

[hjs]

It is what it is.

Yes, my numbers are.

60 min 2 k plus 12
2k base 0
1k minus 5 on the average more
500 minus 12
Max pace 20 seconds below 2 k average.


Those are what they are also, and I am by no means a sprinter.

[carlb]

Tuesday: 7K (Low Intensity), 4x 500m Intervals (High Intensity), 1K (Low Intensity)

For 500m interval sessions doing 4 does not seem enough, and the 7k before is long. You have no medium intervals.

I'd suggest you look at the Pete Plan. To improve 10k time the 5k plan
http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/5k-training/

First week:

• 10k+ steady
  12 x 500m 1R
  10k+ steady
  4 x 1500m 4R
  10k+ steady
  3 x 2k 3R

Since you have only 3 months of regular rowing you may want to do Pete's beginner plan.
http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/

Week 11:

• 10000m
  8 x 500m / 2min rest
  8000m
  [25mins]
  [4 x 1500m / 3min rest]

[KipperTheDog]

Thanks for all the advice.

Andy

[jamesg]

Just pull one good stroke at a time; but plenty of them.