Issue with the C2 ... slack on pull back ??

[jvincent]

You just aren't pulling hard enough. And that pull needs to come mostly with your legs.

You need to figure how to pull harder or it will be difficult to get more distance. Remember, the harder you pull, the more resistance you will feel.

No, No, No.

You don't do any pulling. The legs push , not pull. And the upper body isn't supposed to pull either.

Yes, you are correct of course. You are pushing with the legs and your body is anchored against that force so the only true "pull" comes at the very end of the stroke.

[Bob S.]

Yes, you are correct of course. You are pushing with the legs and your body is anchored against that force so the only true "pull" comes at the very end of the stroke.

One of the advantages of using slides is that it gives you a better feel for that, since you are actually pushing the erg away from you with your feet. With less weight to move (just the stretcher assembly), the dynamic is even more effective at this. I have never had the opportunity to try the Rowperfect or the Oartech, but I have no doubt but that they provide that same feel.

Bob S.

[jvincent]

I can see where using either the dynamic or Rowperfect would be a benefit to people who are training for OTW races since the motion is closer.

I'm just an ex-fat slob who rows to stay in shape and the C2 is perfect for that.

[Bob S.]

I can see where using either the dynamic or Rowperfect would be a benefit to people who are training for OTW races since the motion is closer.

I'm just an ex-fat slob who rows to stay in shape and the C2 is perfect for that.

Claims have been made that grounded static ergs are harder on the back than dynamic ergs and my own experience is consistent with that. It doesn't have to be a C2 dynamic, a Rowperfect, or an Oartech, all of which are considerably more expensive than a model D. Getting slides for the model D has the same effect and is a lot cheaper. With a non-functional fifth lumbar disc, it was worth it to me to get slides. I've been "on the beach" for over 10 years, so the OTW feel is not a factor.

Bob S.

[jvincent]

When I was doing my research the back issue came up a lot.

Fortunately for me I have never had any back issues, knock on wood, and I have been conscious of not over-straining my back when I row. That's a good way to ensure good form as well.

My other "sport" is golf, so having something that works the lower back, like a static erg, is actually a good thing for me.

I started rowing last Jan and once golf season started I noticed that I was considerably less tired in my back after a round. I walk and carry my bag and usually my back is tired after 18 holes (which is about 10-12k walking) but with the overall better conditioning thanks to rowing and the increased back/core strength I was not tired at all. Just played my first round of the season yesterday and it was the same thing.

That and I don't have room for slides.

[Bagger]

I was not able to row today ...

Anyway, I've looked at this vid several times. I am sure I am not shooting the slide. No way I look like that when I'm viewing in the mirrors.



I may be rushing the recovery ... or some such. But, I feel I'm using much more upper body. And, I still feel very little in the leg drive. I have to work on this.

I'm working on a vid.

[Bob S.]

I was not able to row today ...

Anyway, I've looked at this vid several times. I am sure I am not shooting the slide. No way I look like that when I'm viewing in the mirrors.

That one is quite exaggerated in order to clearly show what is meant by shooting the slide. The rower is deliberately losing just about all of her leg drive. A more typical case would be more subtle - just a bit of a lag of the shoulders not quite keeping up with the hips at the very start of the drive.

Bob S.

[carlb]

Claims have been made that grounded static ergs are harder on the back than dynamic ergs and my own experience is consistent with that. Getting slides for the model D has the same effect and is a lot cheaper. With a non-functional fifth lumbar disc, it was worth it to me to get slides.

One thing I like about slides is the feel of the recovery pulling the legs back into the body (almost like going into a tuck) versus the static way of crushing the body into the legs. It just seems nicer and its easier. If you have that space IMO they are well worth $300. Slides do take 11 feet to setup. When I went to set them up I realized that I could put one of the slides under the stairs low overhang which saved 3' of space in the room. Can always pull it off slides so the C2 becomes 2 exercise machines.

I agree shooting the slide is more subtle. That's one thing much easier to see on video, the seat is starting the drive a fraction ahead of the back.

[Bagger]

I'm surprised that such a seemingly simple thing as 'rowing' has become quite complicated.

But, every 'simple' thing has intimate technical aspects .... golf, bowling, passing a football, shooting a handgun, swimming and so on.

I've kayaked (prolly doing that incorrectly, too) ... and, rowed a boat a couple times on vacation. But, I have to admit ... looking in the mirrors and rowing the C2, I think I look pretty good. However, I'm obviously doing something that is not powerful, not efficient, and not correct.

When I get some time, I'll do a vid and post it. I'll continue to row (incorrectly) and see what shakes out. I'll strive for more leg thrust and less upper body involvement.

Thanx, guys.

[Bob S.]

I'm surprised that such a seemingly simple thing as 'rowing' has become quite complicated.

Reading your post triggered off a crazy idea for me. I went to the erg (a dynamic model), got on, put my feet on the stretcher, picked up the handle, held my hands to my hips and started pushing with my legs, getting a pace reading of 3:00 or so. My hands were a little too loose, so I hooked my thumbs in my belt and that pretty much cut down their movement. I didn't check the rate closely, but it was in the high forties. I found that I could go fairly well at a sub 2:40 pace - no back swing - no arm pull - they were not possible with my hands locked to my waist. This was just a quick and casual check, so I think that I could do better and I didn't experiment around to see what could be improved. Now doing this with the dynamic model very likely much easier than with a grounded erg or even with a C, D, or E on slides, since there is very little body movement, but in any case, it allows a rower to really isolate the leg part of the drive. The handle has to keep up with the seat. The rate is sort of high, but then the stroke is obviously much shorter than normal.

Maybe I should rig up a system with a hip harness hooked directly to the chain. If nothing else it would allow a way for armless folks to use rowing machines for exercise and it could be used for a new type of adaptive competitive competition. I'll have to check with a friend who is heavily involved in the adaptive rowing program.

Bob S.

[Bagger]

Bob S .... once again you have creatively developed and accomplished something that is truly unique. Congratulations.

I sorta tried to do this a couple weeks ago when everyone dissed my results when I 1st started. I just could not 'isolate' my legs.

But, I think I have more knowledge than a month ago. I'll try this technic ... trying to isolate my leg drive.

Thanx, Bob.

[Bagger]

I was tired yesterday coming home from work, but decided to row for 20, or so minutes.

I have to tell you ... I was quite disappointed. I tried Bob's "just legs" deal, and that didn't seem to generate any power what so ever. So, I proceeded to just row.

s/500 was just around 2:35ish. I was better, but dropped as I rowed.

I'm obviously doing something wrong, even tho I look the part in the mirrors (to me at least). I have to get the vid up for you folks to critique. All I feel is upper body stuff. Yeah, some leg, but mostly upper body.

I must say ... I'm bummed with these results.

[bepah]

I was working on technique with a friend yesterday and despite all of my coaching, it took me 20 minutes to get hime to stop shooting the slide......it was almost insignificant as he did it but I figured it our with hime as I put the power display on the monitor. His curve was a spike as the first 1/2 second or so was shooting then a big power surge then legs were fully extended. The curve looked like a mountain, not a rounded hill.

After some instruction, he got the power curve in the correct form and his wattage went up 30 points......nice result. Try to use that as guide and maybe you will be successful.

Good luck!

[Bagger]

I was working on technique with a friend yesterday and despite all of my coaching, it took me 20 minutes to get hime to stop shooting the slide......it was almost insignificant as he did it but I figured it our with hime as I put the power display on the monitor. His curve was a spike as the first 1/2 second or so was shooting then a big power surge then legs were fully extended. The curve looked like a mountain, not a rounded hill.

After some instruction, he got the power curve in the correct form and his wattage went up 30 points......nice result. Try to use that as guide and maybe you will be successful.

Good luck!

Thanx, man. I'm not sure how to hook up the display for what you are speaking about, but I'll try to find it.

Appreciate your help. Thanx, again.

[bepah]

I was working on technique with a friend yesterday and despite all of my coaching, it took me 20 minutes to get hime to stop shooting the slide......it was almost insignificant as he did it but I figured it our with hime as I put the power display on the monitor. His curve was a spike as the first 1/2 second or so was shooting then a big power surge then legs were fully extended. The curve looked like a mountain, not a rounded hill.

After some instruction, he got the power curve in the correct form and his wattage went up 30 points......nice result. Try to use that as guide and maybe you will be successful.

Good luck!

Thanx, man. I'm not sure how to hook up the display for what you are speaking about, but I'll try to find it.

Appreciate your help. Thanx, again.

Depress the 'Change Display' on your montior and it will come up. Very easy. Again, Good Luck and do not quit!