ergscores vs. "water scores"

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » March 26th, 2012, 7:57 pm

Xeno Müller ‏ @RowingAdviser
Picking a crew using erg scores is ........................... (

)

See:
http://indoor-rowing.blogspot.com/2012/ ... es-is.html

Of interest?
The age-old controversy since the days when standardized erg-testing began...

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » March 26th, 2012, 9:59 pm

mikvan52 wrote: Of interest?
The age-old controversy since the days when standardized erg-testing began...

Controversy? Anyone who knows anything will tell you the same thing. The link is really just an advertisement for Xeno's services.

What is of interest is your experience with Xeno's. How has he helped you, and how does it compare coaching you have gotten from Buzz and others?

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » March 26th, 2012, 10:42 pm

Picking crews based on ergs scores is an American thing. No where else in the world are they so obsessed with erg scores as they are in the USA. One only has to read through all the posts on the American dominated forum "Rowing illustrated" to realise this. I'm not sure if this is going to change anytime soon either as it seems to be very entrenched in American rowing culture. Perhaps the recent poor performance of the USA men's program and the selection system in general might bring a change after the London Olympics.

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » March 30th, 2012, 10:17 am

Nosmo wrote: The link is really just an advertisement for Xeno's services.

What is of interest is your experience with Xeno's. How has he helped you, and how does it compare coaching you have gotten from Buzz and others?

Advert comment = true
Xeno likes to get his name out there. If he could do pop-up adds, I bet he would..

Xeno has very specific video analysis skills that have helped me (as an aging sculler).... We have yet to see what it will do on the race course... (I'm focusing on the 5k head race distance this year.... as opposed to being drawn in to maxing out for the 1k masters events)
I have been working with Xeno since last November. We agreed to try to restructure my stroke... This has been hard to do as I've taken quite a few strokes in my sculling career...

Xeno insisted that I get lactate testing... so I don't overtrain.. This may end up being a huge plus.
I continue w/video analysis as needed along with a directed training schedule specific to me.

My rate has dropped for equal pace both on the erg and on the water.

I continue to value the more hands-on coaching (in person) I get elsewhere.

Are you coming east this year Nosmo?

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » March 30th, 2012, 10:38 am

Rockin Roland wrote:Picking crews based on ergs scores is an American thing. No where else in the world are they so obsessed with erg scores as they are in the USA. One only has to read through all the posts on the American dominated forum "Rowing illustrated" to realise this. I'm not sure if this is going to change anytime soon either as it seems to be very entrenched in American rowing culture. Perhaps the recent poor performance of the USA men's program and the selection system in general might bring a change after the London Olympics.

Roland:
I agree w/you about RI... Odd,too. Lot's of those guys & gals have "been there and done that".
Perhaps this mystique of Crash-B and the youtubing of the American rowing psyche might have be having, shall we say, a deleterious influence on the needed focus on small boat skills.... Teti changed that some in his huge success but the continuity has somehow been disrupted... I'm am not knowledgeable here.

Personally, I'd love to see our USA outlook turn the corner and start valuing small boats even more as part of the big picture...
The "all eights ~ all the time" tunnel vision is clearly a failure... 2 golds in 40 years... and the 1964 one was clearly tinged w/a German influence (Dietrich Rose). (I'm friends with the stroke of that boat... Stowe writes about it in All Together.

hjs · Post by **hjs** » March 30th, 2012, 12:33 pm

mikvan52 wrote:
Nosmo wrote: The link is really just an advertisement for Xeno's services.

What is of interest is your experience with Xeno's. How has he helped you, and how does it compare coaching you have gotten from Buzz and others?
Advert comment = true
Xeno likes to get his name out there. If he could do pop-up adds, I bet he would..

Xeno has very specific video analysis skills that have helped me (as an aging sculler).... We have yet to see what it will do on the race course... (I'm focusing on the 5k head race distance this year.... as opposed to being drawn in to maxing out for the 1k masters events)
I have been working with Xeno since last November. We agreed to try to restructure my stroke... This has been hard to do as I've taken quite a few strokes in my sculling career...
Xeno insisted that I get lactate testing... so I don't overtrain.. This may end up being a huge plus.
I continue w/video analysis as needed along with a directed training schedule specific to me.

My rate has dropped for equal pace both on the erg and on the water.

I continue to value the more hands-on coaching (in person) I get elsewhere.

Are you coming east this year Nosmo?

Miek maybe you could give him advise how to eat properly

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » March 30th, 2012, 12:58 pm

hjs wrote:
mikvan52 wrote: Miek maybe you could give him advise how to eat properly

He is well aware of the problem, but he loves his food and it is a constant battle for him.

Bob S.

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » March 30th, 2012, 3:02 pm

mikvan52 wrote:....We agreed to try to restructure my stroke....
I continue to value the more hands-on coaching (in person) I get elsewhere.
Are you coming east this year Nosmo?

Hi Mike,
Well I'll be coming east for my 30th Class Reunion (Weslayan) at the end of May, and hopefully my son, who you met, will come too for his 15th. Will get to go out on the Connecticuit with other Alumni but that usually isn't much of a row (and it unfortunately will like be in a sweep boat

). Don't expect to make it for the Black Fly, but I someday I will. My parents are in Brattleboro and I see them most years. Last fall I missed rowing there because of the storms and last minute changes to my schedule.
I keep thinking I can coordinate a trip with the Green Mountain Regatta, but haven't managed yet. Who knows I may even do the Charles, especially if I can find a bow seat I row well with who knows the course well. I could just do it for fun, but I don't need the experience and don't like the idea of taking a spot from someone if I'm not serious about the race.
I'm not too likely to go back to Craftsbury. Although it is a really fun vacation, my wife isn't that interested and my current coach is very good and sees me row several times a week. I think consistent long term coaching is much better then having shorter sessions even with a hot shot coach (who I'm not convinced know any more then my current coach anyway.)

Can you give a brief description of how Xeno wants/wanted your stroke to change? I have been thinking of sending him a video and seeing what he says.

hjs · Post by **hjs** » March 30th, 2012, 4:15 pm

Bob S. wrote:
hjs wrote:
mikvan52 wrote: Miek maybe you could give him advise how to eat properly
He is well aware of the problem, but he loves his food and it is a constant battle for him.

Bob S.

He may be aware but that is not enough, I don't take a coach looking like that serious. He should take better care of himself. I am sure it is costing him business.

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » March 30th, 2012, 7:26 pm

Nosmo wrote: Can you give a brief description of how Xeno wants/wanted your stroke to change? I have been thinking of sending him a video and seeing what he says.

* will send you an email or PM

~cheers...

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » March 30th, 2012, 7:32 pm

BTW: Everyone (!) the comment about Xeno's eating habits was from hjs .... not me (mikvan52)

Anyone seen how large Matt Pinsent is getting...?
All these multiple Olympic medal winners should be cut some slack... geez!

hjs · Post by **hjs** » March 31st, 2012, 4:30 am

mikvan52 wrote:BTW: Everyone (!) the comment about Xeno's eating habits was from hjs .... not me (mikvan52)

Anyone seen how large Matt Pinsent is getting...?
All these multiple Olympic medal winners should be cut some slack... geez!

Utter nonsense Mike, the man has been. Great rower, but being involved in sports and training is about health, he now better become a sumo coach.

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ergscores vs. "water scores"

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