New to Rowing - Please help me with my technique

[PaulBRose]

Hi all - I'm a new rower. Just received my Model D at home this week

I little about my background - I am a 49 year old male, 139 lbs and 5'6" tall. My primary sport is running, but lately I have found that my body just doesn't let me run as much as I'd like to these days. I'd like to be able to run 6 days a week, but my joints really start to complain if I'm out there more than 4x.

So, I started using an OLD C2 at the gym, liked it and decided to get my own for home use. My plan is to cross train between running and rowing. Probably running 3 - 4 times per week and rowing 3x per week.

I looked at all of the technique videos on the C2 website and I think that I understand the basics, but I would appreciate it if some of you would take a look at the linked video below of me rowing, to give me some pointers.



My plan is to use the Pete's Beginner program to get started. I did my first 5000m yesterday. I set the drag factor at 110 and rowed at a 2:34 pace for the 5000 meters.

Any advice or suggestions that you could give me on getting started? Thanks for your help.

Paul

[NavigationHazard]

Cheers - the immediate task is to connect your leg drive to the handle. What you're doing is commonly described in rowing as "bum shooting" or "shooting the slide." That is, your rear end (and center of mass) are going backwards well before the handle, which has to catch up. The upshot is that your strongest muscles (legs) are mostly moving you instead of spinning the flywheel. Think instead of moving the handle back in tandem with the seat when you start the drive, and finishing the stroke with your back and then arms after you've (mostly) used up your legs.

[Bob S.]

NavHaz's advice is right on. The first thing that stands out is the slide shooting. The quads are generally the most powerful muscles in the body, especially in runners, and much of that good quad power is being wasted. Your arm movement looks good. I couldn't spot any early elbow bending and you are getting your hands away well past your knees before the knees start to rise. There is no roller-coastering of the handle.

For practice, you might try some legs only work. Keep the arms straight and keep a constant body angle - preferably vertical.

Bob S.

[PaulBRose]

Thanks for the feedback Bob and NavHaz.

I relooked at the video and I clearly see myself doing this. I rowed for a little while on the erg this afternoon trying to be conscious of the issue - I can see it on the video, but correcting it in the actual rowing seems easier said than done.

I am going to try some of the legs only drills that Bob suggested. Hopefully that will give me a better feeling for how the stroke should be flowing. I'll work on it for a while, and then I will post another video.

Thanks again -

Paul

[RBFC]

Paul,

You might try looking at the rowing motion and power transfer by shifting the plane of motion in your visualization. Imagine picking up something heavy. The lesson always tells you to lift with your legs, not your back. You want to feel the entire posterior "chain" tightened up before the actual lift, so that there's no "slop" in the system. If you go to pick up a heavy object and straighten your legs first before the object leaves the floor, there is a sudden load placed on your lower back and arms. Any familiarity with the weightlifting movement known as the deadlift will reinforce what I'm describing. Get the whole butt/back/shoulders/arms tight as you begin the drive stroke on the rower, then push with your legs so that the handle moves back in unison with your body (which is all one unit at this point).

I'm a relative beginner to rowing for time, but I've had some decent performances because of my familiarity with lifting and pulling, using my body as a single unit.

Good luck, I hope this helped.

Lee

[PaulBRose]

Thanks everyone for the tips. I did a few more practice rows, concentrating on trying not to shoot the slide. I think that I am starting to get the idea, but still have a ways to go to make it comfortable and natural for me.

I took another video, which I uploaded here. I think that it looks a little bit better, but would appreciate everyone's feedback and advice.



Thanks,

Paul

[Bob S.]

Thanks everyone for the tips. I did a few more practice rows, concentrating on trying not to shoot the slide. I think that I am starting to get the idea, but still have a ways to go to make it comfortable and natural for me.

I took another video, which I uploaded here. I think that it looks a little bit better, but would appreciate everyone's feedback and advice.



Thanks,

Paul

The slide shooting is not as pronounced, but it is still there.

Bob S.

[RBFC]

It looked like your best pull was at 00:25 to me... better synchrony. You might try "punching' the handle forward a bit more aggressively when you start the recovery. You may be able to load the chain more thoroughly a bit sooner.

Just to put the picture in your head, perhaps consciously try to lean back a few degrees as you start the drive, so that you can feel the connection through your lower back and hips to the chain. Note: the lean may not be ideally where your torso should begin the drive, but just used as a training tool to understand the body tension that unitizes the pull.

I hope the experienced folks here will comment on those suggestions, as I need more work too.

Lee

[Cyclist2]

Yes, the shooting the slide is still there. One drill I do to prevent that and to make sure that if the seat moves one inch, the handle also moves one inch is to look at the dim reflection of my head on the rail between my legs during the early part of the drive. If the reflection doesn't move in sync with the seat and handle, I'm either shooting the slide or the opposite (opening with my back before most of the leg push is done). I do that during full strokes just to check, but as a drill, I just do about the first foot or 18" of the drive. I hold my arms extended, body rigid in the catch position and just drive with the legs for about 1/4 stroke. I can see right away if everything isn't moving all together. Have fun!

[jamesg]

Looks to me as though your legs are stronger than is good for you, and that to carry the load they produce you're hunching your back and tensing your shoulders. In rowing we use a lot of muscle, so it's best to relax everything that's not actually in use.

I'd want to see you sit up straight, drop your shoulders and relax them. This relaxation could help you take the catch faster by using your back and shoulders earlier on, so that you don't suffer such an energetic bum-shove, and the jolt that could be risky. This will let you exploit your legs for a longer action during the pull.

Try a few short slide pulls off a dead flywheel to see what's needed.

[PaulBRose]

First - thanks to everyone for all of your replies. Your comments have been very helpful in helping me understand what I am doing wrong, and how to try to correct it.

Of course, correcting the mistake is easier said than done. I tried a number of the things that each of you suggested. The thing that seemed most helpful to me was starting with the straight body rowing, as Bob S. suggested, and then transitioning into a full stroke.

I also cut the intensity way down - I had been pulling about 100 - 150 W in the first couple of videos, but I was only pulling about 50W in this one. I also started to look at the force curve on the PM monitor, to see if I could get to a nice smooth rounded shape.

Here is the latest video. I start with a few straight body strokes, and then transition into a full stroke. Please let me know if you think that this is any better and your next suggestions from here.

Thanks again,

Paul

[Citroen]

1. Stop that pause at backstops. Make it one continuous motion. Drive with legs body arms, hands away quickly, arms body legs.
2. Get your head up or you'll go faint due to lack of oxygen.
3. Loosen your grip on the handle and get shot of those gloves.

[PaulBRose]

1. Stop that pause at backstops. Make it one continuous motion. Drive with legs body arms, hands away quickly, arms body legs.
2. Get your head up or you'll go faint due to lack of oxygen.
3. Loosen your grip on the handle and get shot of those gloves.

Thanks Citroen - all very valid points. I can clearly see that I need to smooth things out, pick my head up and stop gripping the handle so tightly.

How about shooting the slide, which was the original problem that I started with - Is that looking better?

Thanks,

Paul

[Citroen]

How about shooting the slide, which was the original problem that I started with - Is that looking better?

You''re beginning to get there, but it's difficult to tell because the pause at backstops hides a multitude of sins.

[RBFC]

Another way to look at the "shooting the slide" issue is to compare it to a powerlifting squat. One of the first pieces of coaching advice to new squatters is to push their head back as they begin to stand up. This motion prevents the typical action of straightening the legs without raising the bar: exactly the same inefficiency being described by slide shooting.

Lee