Beginner with more than you ever wanted to know

Rowing for weight loss or weight control? Start here.
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Sasha
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Beginner with more than you ever wanted to know

Post by Sasha » March 16th, 2006, 8:13 pm

I am taking advantage of this shiney new yet blank slate to locate a tiny crumb of courage I found behind some old papers and post. I kept hoping that lurking would generate a bit but it didn't. In fact you all know a language totally unfamiliar to me, have a solid community, and know many secrets.

I am a woman -- hmm, maybe I should be posting there -- rapidly crashing my way to age 63, need to lose more than half my body weight, and have persistent though well medicated asthma. I swim a bit more than occasionally but otherwise I have instantly loathed every kind of gym equipment that I have ever tried. That is until I put myself on an erg because these silly rowing things were empty and there were lines for the stair thingy, treadmill, and bikes. Oddly enough, I fell in love.

Yes, I found something I actually like to do. Unbelieving, I went back and still loved it. And again. And again. Curious, being a web rat instead of a gym rat, I found my way here.

Well, lovely people, if you've borne with me this long, you undoubtedly will be happy to find my saga is coming to an end. I am obviously a beginner in horrid shape. I have been struggling with 5-10 minute sessions and concentrating on my form. About that, I seem to have a clue. Like if my knee hurts, change the angle. Then make the new angle a habit. Doh.

I'm struggling with how best to maximize my meager progress. Initially 5 minutes would produce two days of fairly major soreness. A former boxer I work with, male age 28, tells me to stretch. Other advice will be welcome. I am trying an every other day regimen now, but my time on the erg is still very short. Advice as to how to proceed? Please?

Alissa
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Post by Alissa » March 16th, 2006, 9:12 pm

Sasha,

I am so glad you found your way here! (Your persistence (and joy at having found something you can enjoy) are great assets.
Since you've been lurking--I presume on the old board?--you know that the natives are generally friendly and willing to answer questions.) So let me start out with a few things (and I'll try to avoid jargon!)...

1. Concentrating on form is a great idea! Do you have someone who rows who you can watch? and then they can watch you and coach? If not hereis a rowing stroke you could look at. You also might want to get a DVD. Xeno Muller sells some well-regarded ones, and C2 also has a DVD available. (I haven't seen any of the DVDs, but have been learning to row at Xeno's rowing studio, so can recommend him!)

2. Choose a lowish number for the lever on the side of the flywheel. BTW, this lever does not set resistence, but rather a relative scale (for your particular machine) intended to allow you to set the "drag factor" (which is comparable across machines) for the flywheel which then provides resistance based on how hard you push with your legs and then pull w/ your body and arms. Much more detail will probably be forthcoming, but you probably want that lever to point to somewhere between 3 & 5. Note that many experienced rowers would never consider using a high drag factor for their regular training. There is certainly no reason for you to do so.

3. Log your meters. Create a free on-line log at Concept2.com. By logging your meters and the time it took you to row them, you'll begin to see your progress. If you like, you'll be able to compare yourself to others. Or you can "contribute" your meters to a group that competes with other groups for the amount of meters they collectively row (or in some cases, row on average.

3. There are many people with many goals here: weight loss, fitness, racing...and many of them have organized themselves into teams. Other teams are based on geography or affiliations. After a while you might want to join one that seems suitable for you (you can see the full list from your logbook (look under university/club standings)--and if you've been logging your meters, you can hand them over to your new team! BTW, each May 1, everyone's meter total drops back to zero, so you will be starting even with everyone else then!

Have fun! and ask questions as you go along... :D

Alissa

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Post by Meri » March 16th, 2006, 9:38 pm

Sasha,
You've found friends. I am not an expert, but many on this site are. My advise is to be patient. Your endurance will slowly increase. Don't even try to increase your speed, go slow and easy until you can tolerate 10 then 20 then 30 minutes at a comfortable rate (you should still be able to talk to someone, or you're working too hard), then you can increase speed. Monitor your heart rate, or get a monitor. They are well worth it as they keep you safe, and can push you to work harder. Calculate a safe target heart rate-ask your physician if you don't know how. Make sure your damper is low. You'll need to watch your diet-rowing alone didn't help me lose weight until I began cutting calories, which was (and still is) difficult. Soreness? That's a good sign-it means you are working muscles unaccustomed to so much activity. Certainly stretch-the concept2 web site has good techniques, but do so after you've warmed up, and don't overstretch into pain. Heat and massage may help, but I find if I just keep moving the soreness actually subsides more quickly than if I sit too long. Keep posting-this site has been wonderful for me, and watching Xeno is fun. The friendly competition from the virtual teams and my virtual rowing partner keep me motivated. Best of luck.
Meri

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Sasha
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Post by Sasha » March 16th, 2006, 9:51 pm

Thank you both so much. Meri, you said
Make sure your damper is low.


(a pretty amusing sentence, but that's me)

I assume you mean that numbered thingy on the side of the flywheel that Alissa told me to put between 3 and 5, right?

If so, I've been using it on the highest setting - 10 - just because that's where it was and I am clueless. I'll move it.

I very much appreciate the help and, of course, welcome more.

Sasha

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Post by LacticAcid » March 17th, 2006, 12:02 am

Start low and slow, work long and easy. Breathe.

Pain won't go away until row it away!

Exercise alone isn't enough. Eat a Vegetarian diet one week, and off the next, eventually full-time. Do not let your tastebuds rule your health! Drink lots of water! Eat foods that contain water.

Quick; Buy a Yoga DVD and a Vegetarian Cookbook.

I like these two:

10 Minute Solutions Yoga -

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A3 ... ance&n=130

The Vegetarian Times Complete Cookbook -

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076455 ... oding=UTF8


Losing weight is easy!


Good Luck! :D


Bob

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Post by michaelb » March 17th, 2006, 12:39 am

Lowering the lever (the damper) on the side from 10 to 3 is a great first step. Most of us row with the damper in the 3-5 range.

The next thing would to figure out your pace and your stroke rate. The pace is going to be shown as the number of minutes it takes you to row 500m, so it will read something like 2:30 or something. You may have to click some buttons to change units to get it to display pace. That will tell you how fast you are going, the lower the number the faster you are going. The stroke rate is how many strokes per minute you are doing. That should be in the upper right corner of most displays and will be something s/m and should be in the 20-30 something range. You probably should be rowing in the low 20s at most, so if it is higher than that, work on lowering your SR by pulling more strongly and recovering more slowly (the DVDs might help here).

I rowed for years on my C2 and never got much past 20 minutes. Music really helped me get over that hump. But more importantly, I would encourage you to not "just row", instead, push the buttons and figure out how to row a set distance. You may want to decide that rowing a 5k is a good short term goal, and work up to that by starting with something like 3000 first and seeing how that feels. Rowing by a set amount of meters is much easier mentally to me, since you have a beginning, middle and end to the row.

Good luck and keep it up.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13

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Post by reeroar » March 17th, 2006, 10:16 am

Sasha...first of from someone who has concept 2 to thank for losing a lot of weight, increased my fitness and made my overall life better (I am a young male so this generally relates to being able to date attractive women but this will change)....you have made a step in the right direction.

the most effective way to lose weight and get in shape is the time you spend on the rower....the first time I got on a rower I was off after 4 mins....I now regularly do 5ks in the morning (20 mins) and an hour at night (depending on how I am feeling this is usually between 14200 - 15000 meters) and I have never been really focused on speed just being on there and being consistent...never push yourself - if you are consistent improvements will come. I really like watching a dvd while I row, listening to music...I get on there get in groove and before I know it I am done...and I feel great....so in a sentence - row long and often and you will see the results.

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Post by Ducatista » March 17th, 2006, 12:56 pm

Sasha, congratulations! Erging is a fantastic fitness-building and calorie-burning activity, and the C2 board is a great online resource.

Someone above said losing weight is easy. I couldn't disagree more (you'll find a lot of contrary opinions on this board B) ), but I can state from experience that erging is one of the best tools you can have in your weight-loss arsenal. And I'll offer this: every single meter you log has positive benefit. Every one. Keep piling them up and you'll see great results.

The effort you're putting into form is energy well spent. The better your form, the smoother and more rhythmic your stroke. And the smoother and more relaxed you are, the farther you'll go.

One specific note: be sure your grip is relaxed. I don't even put my thumbs around the handle, just hook my fingers around and let my thumbs rest easily on the top. I don't know if that's considered proper form, but I do know that everything about my stroke is more relaxed if I don't have a death grip on the handle.

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Erg all you want..

Post by LacticAcid » March 17th, 2006, 6:31 pm

You can Erg all you want, but without a change of mentality and the elimination of old habits. Weightloss simply won't happen.

Techniques of gripping the handles and thumb placement are simply complications in the mental process of making it easy to change.

Learn all you can, but keep in mind, the "tools of weightloss" can easily turn into gimmicks.

Weightloss is the elimination of old habits and the denial of excuses that keep you from progress.

For survival change must happen from within.

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Sasha
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Post by Sasha » March 17th, 2006, 7:47 pm

You can Erg all you want, but without a change of mentality and the elimination of old habits. Weightloss simply won't happen.
I appreciate that advice. I also appreciate all of the advice about technique, approach, and the like. I want to maximize the probability of success. And if I don't lose weight, I'd much rather be in better shape and fat than not :)

I got rid of the death grip on the handle, eliminated the foot straps, and set the damper (hah!) at 3. I got more time in with less pain, and that has to be good.

Thank you all very very much.

More suggestions are still welcome -- I have a long way to go. But that vegetarian just isn't going to happen, ever. I live in the land of blue crabs and we are very fond of each other.

LacticAcid
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Maryland?

Post by LacticAcid » March 17th, 2006, 9:38 pm

Crabs are just fine, just no melted butter!

Instead make "Crab" california rolls with brown sushi rice. Very filling!

You wanted to lose 1/2 of your body weight, I thought?

Treat yourself to a once a year Crab / Clam buffet at the J. Millard Tawes Clam bake and that's it.

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Sasha
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Post by Sasha » March 17th, 2006, 9:42 pm

Oh I just eat steamed hard crabs in season, no butter. I'm very near the source :)

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Post by lady_lynore » March 18th, 2006, 5:52 am

Dear Sasha,
I'm not sure how many of the other respondents have actually rowed versus erged.

If you are adding exercise to an otherwise exercise free-lifestyle this will certainly help. Erging (or rowing) is one of the most demanding all-over ways to exercise. I have rowed for over 18 years and erged all winter long to stay in shape for the season. My body is very forgiving of what I eat when I am rowing and not forgiving when I don't.

The damper will radically improve your erging form. If the damper is too high, you can actually hurt yourself. So I'm happy to read you have fixed that.

Formwise. You want a recovery (the moving back up the slide with essentially zero effort) that is twice as long as the drive (pushing down with the legs, opening up the upper body, and finishing with the arms). You can think of it as two beats to one. So you drive down your legs, open up, and finish as one beat, then you slowly "undo" the stroke, and slide back up the slide in two beats. This is called "ratio". No matter what the stroke rating you should be looking at this type of ratio.

For your purposes you really want a low and long stroke rating (18-24). This is the most conducive to really getting in a good exercise, strengthening your muscles, and longer times on the erg.

Rowers rarely try to row for an hour straight without trying to break it down. There are many ways to break down a workout.

For example, a popular breakdown is called a 3-2-1. You keep rowing throughout, never stopping, watch the clock and as you hit various times, you change stroke rating.
Three minutes at a stroke rating of say 18.
Two minutes stroke rating of 20.
One minute at a stroke rating of 22.
Then you drop back down to an 18 for 3 and the cycle repeats. When you drop from the 22 to 18, you should feel as though you are lengthening out the stroke and this will really help your workout.

If you can do three times through the cycle, you've completed an 18 minute workout.

One of the other respondents talked about your split. There is a way to get the display to show a split of how much time it would take you to finish 500 meters. For example it may say 3:03 therefore indicating 3:03 minutes to row 500 meters. When you do your workouts, you want to control your split. Ideally you want to be able to work fairly hard and only let it drift up less than say 10%. When someone talks about a negative split it means they make that number go down (therefore working harder) as the workout continues.

You also want to spend 5-10 minutes when you first get on the erg lightly rowing. Rowers call this paddling. You do the stroke with very little pressure just to get the kinks worked out. It's a rower's equivalent to a jog. Get everything working in the right order. The pressure may come up a little to get the muscles warm in this time. Then you should stretch before you start the real workout.

There are all sorts of resources for alternate workouts. I recommend the 3-2-1 to get used to changing speeds, stroke ratings, watching your splits, and getting used the language of workouts.

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Post by Wood_Duck » March 22nd, 2006, 9:05 pm

Welcome Sasha!

We were all new at some point. Many of us are erging to lose weight. I have lost 18 pounds and have 30-40 to go. I have been making little attainable goals like 5 pounds and finding rewards that aren't food based. It took me 12 years and one pregnacy to put on 75 pounds. So I know it is going to take a while for it all to come off.

My plan is regular exercise (5-6 days a week) and changing the eating habits that led to all this weight gain--stress eating, eating way too much way too fast, etc. I cut out fried foods and my favorite Burger King sausage biscuits. Every once in a while if the family is eating french fries, I might have a few but that is different from eating the large all by myself. I did allow a sausage biscuit last week but I had to row an extra amount first. Often figuring out how long I would have to row to eat something unhealthy helps me decide that it is not worth it. :)

I am so glad you got hooked on rowing. I did too. Before I found the erg, I hated exercising. Sometimes it is still not fun. But I am always glad I rowed (after I am done.) I spent a lot of time at the beginning working on form. I had someone watch the link above and then watch me.

When I started rowing, I had trouble with back pain so I would erg for 5 minutes walk around (to bring my heart rate down) and then follow the stretches in the c2 manual (the same as on the website) I would then erg 5 more minutes and stretch. When I could, I worked up to doing 2 six minute sessions. It all takes time. You said you swim, perhaps erg one day and swim the other. Keep up the good work. Remember the turtle won the race by plodding along slow and sure. The rabbit burned out and never finished.

Keep up the good work!

Susan
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
1st row 11/23/04; 1 MM 3/20/06; 2 MM 6/9/07; 3 MM 5/15/08; 1st 2k: 1/28/07 (9:04.2); 1st MARATHON! 4/19/06 (4:42:42.9)

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Sasha
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Post by Sasha » March 22nd, 2006, 10:29 pm

Well I'm still at it. Which amazes me. And I am eating better. I've lost 7 pounds this month and found body parts that I didn't know I had.

Thank you all (and Ellen who wrote me) so very much. I am still working on form, have taken bits from all of you, and learned what spm means,

Wood_Duck, the idea of taking a break and getting back on the horse is very appealing. I'm going to try that. I've been alternating -- this sounds pitiful but so be it -- between a 5 minute day and a day that is as much as I can do .. 10 minutes is my max. I'm still discovering new stiff places in the morning. Since I get to my desk at 6:30 (Yes, AM) I prefer being reasonably mobile in the early morning.

I'm still working on my first 5K but a million meters is most entrancing.

Again, thank you all.

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