report on C2 Dynamic

[Bob S.]

I had just reported my experiences with the C2 Dynamic on my C2UK blog and it occurred to me that there might be some interest here, so here is a copy and paste:

"I got the second box late Friday afternoon, but we were going out so I couldn't assemble it until Saturday morning. It took a couple of hours, but I made a couple of minor miscues along the way. So far I have done 6 pieces. My 10' pre-physical therapy warm-ups yesterday and today, an 8' warm-up, 2X15' UT1s, and an 8' cool-down.

Brief comments:
Nice to be back in the house instead of out in the garage. The small foot print (compared to slides) was my major impetus for getting it.
Noisy - considerably more so than the D. I had not remembered this from when I tried out the prototype at Boston. I thought that I might have flubbed something in the assembly, but I checked out a few videos on the C2 website and they had the same sound.
Quite heavy, far heavier than the D and cannot be separated into parts that are easy to store as is the case with the D. It can be lifted at one end and rolled on the wheels, but I don't think that my wife can do it when she wants it out of the way to clean the room that it is in.
The Garmin HR monitor works fine - once I found out how to set the monitor to receive the signal. It was no big problem, really. It was just that I didn't know that it had to be set first. (Yeah - read the directions, Dummy.) So on the first piece in which I wore the belt, I thought that it would be automatic. Nothing showed on the monitor and I was wondering if I had a problem. After that piece (the pre-workout warm-up today), I punched other options to take a look at my results on the logcard, and what do you know? One of the options was to connect the HR system. So I was able to use it for the rest of the workout, i.e. 2X15' UT1 and the cd.
What did not work was RowPro. I had hoped to use that for the workout today, but the green light did not come on - it just stayed red. My computer was getting the signal O.K, because the window with the Mac/Windows option came up. I did the usual click on Windows, but the PM twin light stayed red. I guess that I will have to send an sos e-mail to DigitalRowiing.
So far, I have been using low rates only - nothing over 20 spm and the paces have been slower than what I had been used to. I have read that this has happened to others at low rates as can be seen in the link that I will list below.

I have been looking at another site that is very similar to the C2 forums and came up with a lot of interesting comments on the C2 Dynamic and many of the alternatives, including what I had a few days ago - a model D and a set of slides. For those interested in the Dynamic, that link is a site worth checking out.

http://www.rowingillustrated.com/boards ... &sk=t&sd=a

One of the comments on a previous blog about the Dynamic, suggested that I send a picture once I had it set up. I don't think that there is much point to that. There are plenty of pictures of it available on the web already, especially on the C2 website."

Bob S.

[JRBJR]

Thanks for the initial dispatch, Bob.

Looking forward to your impressions of the overall feel and performance of the C2 Dynamic. Any problems with the interplay between the handle and the rolling footrest assembly? A few have said the feel is close to that of a static erg on slides, but many others have complained about the "light" (less resistance) feeling of both items on the Dynamic, that it's difficult to get the upper body and arms in sync with the legs,etc. In other words, dissatisfaction. Perhaps that's just a byproduct of getting used to the new setup of the Dynamic and unlearning the feel of the static/static with slides.

[Citroen]

What did not work was RowPro. I had hoped to use that for the workout today, but the green light did not come on - it just stayed red. My computer was getting the signal O.K, because the window with the Mac/Windows option came up. I did the usual click on Windows, but the PM twin light stayed red. I guess that I will have to send an sos e-mail to DigitalRowiing.

What are you running on your Mac to turn it into a brain-dead Windows zombie? There's been loads of posts here about running RowPro on Macs. It doesn't run natively (because Digital Rowing tied themselves into Microsofts proprietary development framework).

[Bob S.]

What are you running on your Mac to turn it into a brain-dead Windows zombie? There's been loads of posts here about running RowPro on Macs. It doesn't run natively (because Digital Rowing tied themselves into Microsofts proprietary development framework).

Parallels (with Mac OS 10.6.8 and Windows XP). I had been using it for quite some time with the PM3 on my recently sold model D. There have been numerous problems, but it was running reasonably well. At least I was able to get a live PM twin on the RowPro screen. I suppose that there is some additional step needed to use it with the PM4, but I don't know what it is. The computer does acknowledge the PM connection, but RowPro ignores it.

Interestingly enough, there was nothing about RowPro in the printed materials that were packed with the Dynamic. When I bought the model D, it came with the invitation to get the trial version. Has there been a change of policy here?

Incidentally, I was advised by DigitalRowing to upgrade to Windows 7, but advice from another source warned me against it. Any comments on that issue? I also considered upgrading the Mac to 10.7, but a check on the internet reviews steered me away from that. Parallels also has an upgrade (7?), as I keep getting reminded with popups, but I don't see any need for it, although if I upgraded the Mac OS it would likely be necessary.

Bob S.

[Carl Watts]

Get a PC !

Although if the Mac users hold on long enough I'm pretty sure a Mac version of RowPro will be out soon.

The is no difference between plugging in a PM3 or a PM4 they work the same on my Windows XP set-up.

My main hope is that any newer versions of RowPro does not require Windows 7. This would be a real pain in the preverbial and really not necessary it's just an OS so make it work on XP. You can pickup a PC with enough grunt to run RowPro for next to nothing over here and Windows 7 will require additional expense in Software and even the possible Hardware upgrade which just limits new users.

[Citroen]

The is no difference between plugging in a PM3 or a PM4 they work the same on my Windows XP set-up.

That's not true. They have different product IDs. VendorID='17a4' ProductID='0001' (PM3) or '0002' (PM4). Not that it should make any difference to running under Parallels.

I think one answer is bootcamp - which turns an Intel based Mac into a dual boot machine.

[carlb]

because Digital Rowing tied themselves into Microsofts proprietary development framework

Like Mac is not proprietary?

Not only the software API, but hardware is proprietary, limited (slowwww) and expensive. Mac OS has a long history of being difficult to develop on. The original Mac required buying a $10,000 Lisa, and I think you needed 2 of them, one to run the IDE and one to test. The Mac API was kind of sucky and limited compared to WinAPI for a long time. Things like multi-threading and virtual memory were missing. These days Apple wants a piece of everyones $ action that wants to work with their products. Microsoft may head that way with Windows 8

But we're here to talk about rowing..... There's nothing wrong with picking Windows as a platform, DR probably sold 10 to 20 times more software.

I'm surprised RowPro would have a problem since its true Windows on an Intel processor. But then my software has some issues too, but it does run....according to the marketing dept.

[Citroen]

because Digital Rowing tied themselves into Microsofts proprietary development framework

Like Mac is not proprietary?

I wouldn't know about Apple. I refuse to pay lots of money for overpriced hardware with a caged operating system (where nothing that isn't sanitised and approved by Apple gets installed).

[Montanaandy]

I wouldn't know about Apple

No, clearly you don't know about Apple or more specifically Mac's because if you did you would realize that the hardware while not inexpensive is not what I would consider "overpriced" anymore than a BMW is overpriced compared to a Toyota. If you don't mind a cludgy OS and constatntly looking out for viruses then Windows is for you. We switched all of our computers over to Mac's several years back after years of bearing with Windows and its drawbacks and don't regret it one bit. The time that we have saved not screwing around with constant updates, driver incompatability issues, etc. more than paid for the difference in price between the Mac and a PC. Time is money...

[Citroen]

I wouldn't know about Apple

No, clearly you don't know about Apple or more specifically Mac's because if you did you would realize that the hardware while not inexpensive is not what I would consider "overpriced" anymore than a BMW is overpriced compared to a Toyota. If you don't mind a cludgy OS and constatntly looking out for viruses then Windows is for you. We switched all of our computers over to Mac's several years back after years of bearing with Windows and its drawbacks and don't regret it one bit. The time that we have saved not screwing around with constant updates, driver incompatability issues, etc. more than paid for the difference in price between the Mac and a PC. Time is money...

You're forgetting Linux and a dozen other operating systems for Intel hardware.

And yes I do think BMWs are overpriced, but since nobody chooses a BMW (they're always company cars) it's moot.

[Ultramega OK]

So I guess the bottom line question is which of the dynamic options is best? By best I mean most closely simulates rowing OTW. I realize that there is complete substitute. I would be particularly interested in comparisons between the C2 Dynamic and the C2 on slides and Also the Dynamic vs. The Oartec Slider and Rowperfect Indoor Sculler. I realize that other threads discuss these but I haven't seen anything from anyone who has tried all the options side by side. I would suspect that the Dynamic offers a very different feel from the Oartec and Rowperfect. And also is there anything about RP that even remotely justifies its higher price? Thanks.

[Nosmo]

So I guess the bottom line question is which of the dynamic options is best?

You will find people arguing in favor of C2 for customer support and installed base reasons--very valid in my view. However strictly in terms of feel you will not get agreement on this.

Do not think nearly enough people have tried them all to have a consensus on the difference in feel let alone which is closer to a boat. A few people are adamant about how much better the row perfect is, a few others seem to think the Ortec is just as good as the Row Perfect and the best deal, and a few others seem to think it doesn't matter much. Xeno says it is not the machine but the rowers technique that is the determining factor (from what I've read--and it may be rather limited--his analysis is basically dynamic good, static bad).

[Bob S.]

So I guess the bottom line question is which of the dynamic options is best? By best I mean most closely simulates rowing OTW. I realize that there is complete substitute. I would be particularly interested in comparisons between the C2 Dynamic and the C2 on slides and Also the Dynamic vs. The Oartec Slider and Rowperfect Indoor Sculler. I realize that other threads discuss these but I haven't seen anything from anyone who has tried all the options side by side. I would suspect that the Dynamic offers a very different feel from the Oartec and Rowperfect. And also is there anything about RP that even remotely justifies its higher price? Thanks.

I can't speak for the RP and OS. I have never even seen either of them. But after a year with a model D on slides and about 4 dozen pieces on the Dynamic, my view is that the D on slides is far quieter and has a slightly better feel than the Dynamic. If it were not for the footprint issue, I would have stuck with the D on slides. I would use a static only when there is no other choice, like in an ergatta.

Bob S.

[Yankeerunner]

It can be lifted at one end and rolled on the wheels, but I don't think that my wife can do it when she wants it out of the way to clean the room that it is in.

Bob S.

Old school. Interesting.

A more modern wife might make you clean the damn room yourself without using the 'It's too heavy' ploy.

[Bob S.]

It can be lifted at one end and rolled on the wheels, but I don't think that my wife can do it when she wants it out of the way to clean the room that it is in.

Bob S.

Old school. Interesting.

A more modern wife might make you clean the damn room yourself without using the 'It's too heavy' ploy.

sshhh! Don't suggest it.