Concept 2 Model D or Fluid Rower E316

[Bob S.]

I don’t want to come across as a concept 2 hater, I actually like their rowers ... believe it or not. But I just want to know why everyone loves them so much compared to other rowers?

There are three major factors. The C2 provides worldwide competition through their rankings page, several major IRCs, and this forum as well as the UK forum. They also have a very strong service reputation, which the other indoor rowers have not yet established. The third item is the reliability of the PMs. I don't know first hand, but I have read that the PM on the Fluid rower is not up to the standards of the C2 PMs, but that was some time ago, so perhaps that is no longer the case.

With regard to movement of the C2. They definitely can jump around. I have observed plenty of instances of that under a variety of circumstances, including WIRC and satellite regattas. Perhaps the Fluid rower is heavier? I have never seen one, so this is just a guess.

Bob S.

[carlb]

If Concept 2’s don’t move then how come my gym have had to nail a wooden block into their wooden floor. This isn’t the only gym I have been to where they have done this. I am going to the gym tonight so I can get a picture if you want.

Ask them why. The C2 is light and easy to move without a person on it so maybe they just want to keep them in place 24x7. I and others have stated this is not a problem we have, or have seen.

I want to know why people prefer Concept 2’s to Fluid Rowers and it has just turned into a debate about whether concept 2’s slide along the floor or not.

As I stated above the FR is a big unknown for me (an average consumer) on how well it works, reliability, resale value, etc. The C2 rower and the company well known and are a no brainer on all points, it works, it lasts, it resells, etc. It's design has been heavily studied. It is _the_standard in indoor rowing, you can compare your performance to others and standards. Add to that the online stuff, community, books, papers. Add on products PM4, Slides, HR, ANT+, RowPro. A 30 day return, easy resale used and good value. It is such an easy choice, and the best rower to start with.

The thread is called Concept 2 Model D or FR 316. If you click on the links you will see that they are a very similar price and the fluid isn’t 2x as much?? I don’t want to come across as a concept 2 hater, I actually like their rowers ... believe it or not. But I just want to know why everyone loves them so much compared to other rowers?

In the USA the FR316 sells for $1900 vs. the C2 D+PM3 is $900 so that's 2X, with PM4 $1050. In the UK the C2 rowers cost more and the FR doesn't, I'd wonder why. I would start with the C2.

[Citroen]

In the UK the C2 rowers cost more and the FR doesn't, I'd wonder why. I would start with the C2.

If stuff is made in the EU we don't pay import duty, although we do pay VAT (20% sales tax). For stuff made in the USA the normal rule is scrub out the dollar sign and write in a pound sign (which lifts the cost by 1.65). The normal reason cited for that is transport, VAT and import duty.

[Bob S.]

If stuff is made in the EU we don't pay import duty, although we do pay VAT (20% sales tax). For stuff made in the USA the normal rule is scrub out the dollar sign and write in a pound sign (which lifts the cost by 1.65). The normal reason cited for that is transport, VAT and import duty.

In consideration of that, it is amazing that, on a per population basis, erg competitions are far better attended in the UK than in the US. The distances involved are a big factor, of course, but I was continually surprised to see in the UK forum just how active indoor rowing is there - mostly on C2 machines, apparently.

Bob S.

[D Dog]

As I stated above the FR is a big unknown for me (an average consumer) on how well it works, reliability, resale value, etc. The C2 rower and the company well known and are a no brainer on all points, it works, it lasts, it resells, etc. It's design has been heavily studied. It is _the_standard in indoor rowing, you can compare your performance to others and standards. Add to that the online stuff, community, books, papers. Add on products PM4, Slides, HR, ANT+, RowPro. A 30 day return, easy resale used and good value. It is such an easy choice, and the best rower to start with.

Thanks for that, would agree with those points.

Found this today (see attached) which might be worth reading, its a test between Fluid Rower, Concept 2, Oxford Rower and the Water rower by Ultra Fit Magazine.


*Edit* Not sure if attachment worked so posted a link here

[Citroen]

Funny that an article that favours the fluid rower (likely sponsored by them) turns up on
http://www.fluid-rower.com/wp-content/u ... athome.pdf

[gregsmith01748]

I read the article and I was less than impressed. The tone was pretty biased against the concept2. Grudgingly admitting the positives and exaggerating the negatives. I have no idea what is meant by flat spots in the drive and losing 30% of the drive length.

Applying the term "primitive" to the use of air as the friction medium is presented with absolutely no support as to why water would be any better (other than a pleasing sloshing noise), and frankly, I don't get why a fan passing THROUGH water emulates an oar STUCK in the water and propelling a boat. Granted there is some slippage but there is also lift from lateral movement that is not at all emulated by a water resistance element.

Next, I was kind of stunned by how unimportant the ability to program any kind of interval work. Even if you don't race, including intervals and higher intensity workouts is a great way to avoid boredom and improve your cardiovascular fitness. The fact that the C2 is the ONLY machine tested that supports this capability would seem to disqualify the others for anyone that is actually looking for a machine that will be used regularly, instead of purchased, used for a month and then offered on ebay to the next sucker.

Finally, the use of the language in the description of quality is biased. Basically, although the damper setting has worked apparently without any trouble for the author for years (set it to 4 and go), he derides it as "feeling cheap". I have seen dozens of machines at health clubs in various states of disrepair. Wobbly seats, vibrations in the fan, busted monitors, taped up handles. I have never, ever seen a machine that had a problem with the damper setting mechanism.

There are good, well thought out comparisons of C2, C2 dynamic, RowPerfect and OTW rowing that have been done. I'd be interested in the same thoughtful approach to evaluating the fluid rower and the water rower. This comparison is crap.

This is not to say that I think the C2 is perfect. If there were a way to avoid using the drag factor to iteratively set the damper to get the right setting, it would be an improvement. If the PM screen were a bit bigger and back lit, it would be easier for me to use in a dim basement. And I do think that the future of indoor rowing will slowly move toward dynamic models, which, by the way, the article did not address at all.

[Citroen]

I have never, ever seen a machine that had a problem with the damper setting mechanism

I've seen MK I model Cs where the damper lever is in the smooth channel loose and drops as you row (I fixed it with a folded paper towel under the lever). The MK II model C improved that with a "notched" channel on the cage so that the lever would sit steady but it restricts you to damper setting (no inbetween setting).

The model D/E damper lever is a massive improvement on both of the model C designs with their flaws.

[D Dog]

I know this is an old thread (sorry). But did anyone watch big brother last night? They were all on fluid rowers, made me laugh.

[Citroen]

I know this is an old thread (sorry). But did anyone watch big brother last night? They were all on fluid rowers, made me laugh.

You should be asking on http://concept2.co.uk/forum where the folks who are more likely to have seen that are more likely to see your comment.

[Quatroux]

My wife said that Biggest Loser had a bunch of waterrowers on the show the other day. Perhaps a C2 competitor is making a media push.

[Carl Watts]

You would have to ask yourself if a bunch of fat people on your rower was "Good Marketing".

[TabbRows]

My wife said that Biggest Loser had a bunch of waterrowers on the show the other day. Perhaps a C2 competitor is making a media push.

IndoRow programs and Xeno Muller have switched from C2s to the fluid rowers. And probably gave some push to the producers of BL to move in that direction. Josh Crosby has a pretty sizable Westside LA following so this doesn't surprise me. You'll notice though that they don't focus on the rowers as much as the treads and elips, and the technique being demonstrated leave a lot to be desired, which points to the 3 trainers as not having experience or success with rowing machines, versus rope swings. I would doubt the damper settings are up that much or that they spend more than 5 minutes on the machines in their 6 hours a day total workouts.

[Bob S.]

IndoRow programs and Xeno Muller have switched from C2s to the fluid rowers. And probably gave some push to the producers of BL to move in that direction. Josh Crosby has a pretty sizable Westside LA following so this doesn't surprise me.

Your mention of Crosby was the first I had heard about him in quite some time, so, out of curiosity, I checked out Indo-Row on the web. Very interesting! His main gym has a very sizable stock of water rowers, but more interesting to me was the fact that the manufacturer now seems to be using the name Indo-Row for one of their machines. http://www.amazon.com/Water-Rower-Indo- ... B002TSGC0I

I wonder what effect this has on Xeno's Row2Go program. Or for that matter, Jack Nunn’s Powerhouse Fitness, which uses C2 model D’s. I notice one rather odd item in Jack’s website – most but not all of the models have what appear to be Shox Boxes, but only under the back foot – i.e. behind the rower. This, of course, gives the rail a rather steep slant. http://www.powerhousefit.com/photos/

It is interesting that all three of them are in SoCal, although Indo-Row seems to be in Chicago and New York as well, but it is not clear to me if Crosby is involved there or just the Water-Rower manufacturer.

Bob S.

[TabbRows]

I'm not sure Bob. I think Crosby has the copyright on the name Indo-Row and perhaps he franchises out. I do know they have Indo-Row at one of the smaller fitness studios in Tallahassee. Costs an arm and a leg though. Our masters rowing club did a demo there once. I wasn't too enthused on the machines and never got the monitor to work right for me.

I don't think Indo-Row has a great impact on Jack or Xeno as they are in 3 different geographical areas. I thought at one time Jack's facilities were part of Long Beach Rowing's center.

BTW, did you see the bunching of the GVs singles at the Charles. Under 23 raw time including bridge/bouy hits for those 78 year old youngsters! Awesome rowing.