Ranger's training thread

[redzone]

In terms of power, my catches are _enormously_ better.

This is possibly my favourite Ranger quote of all time. Gotta love those powerful catches.

[ausrwr]

You're right. You do have a massive amount to work on.

The fact that you can't identify no slide control, and belting the catch, as issues indicates that!

You've got no connection with your legs, and are getting all of your connection through your shoulders and back. That's part of the reason you're going so deep. And because it's so heavy, so early, you can't accelerate, and your finish is a dump into your lap with your hands - that's why your boat dips so much at the finish.

One apology on my behalf though: I said you couldn't use the same stroke on the water as you do on the erg. Unfortunately for you, I was wrong.

[whp4]

Your belief that you can coach yourself has held you back. To put it another way, you would go faster than you are going now if you got some coaching and were able to be coached.

Sure, but I prefer going slowly

No worries, that's all you'll ever manage rowing like that!

[Rocket Roy]

You're right. You do have a massive amount to work on.


One apology on my behalf though: I said you couldn't use the same stroke on the water as you do on the erg. Unfortunately for you, I was wrong.

[snowleopard]

ranger,

Just what is going on in your head when you say: a) I now move the boat/row as well as Mike; and b) I only have fitness things to work on?

It's a good job you didn't get any entry for the HotC. They would have been throwing concrete, cars and children at you from the bridges. Anything to get you off the river.

[ranger]

You've got no connection with your legs

Not true at all, sorry.

ranger

[ranger]

You're right. You do have a massive amount to work on.

Sure.

So, that I am so fast already is _very_ encouraging.

I suspect that I can do a 1K @ 1:50, right now--and a sub-2:00 5K.

The fact that you can't identify no slide control, and belting the catch, as issues indicates that!

No, I think I can identify these things. I keep working on them. Identifying something and doing it are completely different things, though, especially for a novice 60-year-old. Byron knows all about these matters, and Roy will soon know about them, too.

your finish is a dump into your lap with your hands - that's why your boat dips so much at the finish.

Yes, my releases and finishes are _very_ bad. I'll keep working on them.

One apology on my behalf though: I said you couldn't use the same stroke on the water as you do on the erg. Unfortunately for you, I was wrong.

Yes, you _were_ wrong. I do indeed use the same stroke OTW than I use OTErg, and I will continue to.

That's what makes doing both every day, in about equal amounts, so productive. As I continue to figure these things out OTW, I'll keep changing my erg stroke so that it remains like my OTW stroke.

I have been doing that all along already, and it has made massive improvements in my erging.

Rowing a lot OTW will help Roy's erging, too.

ranger

[ranger]

Just what is going on in your head when you say: a) I now move the boat/row as well as Mike; and b) I only have fitness things to work on?

High achievement in rowing is a product of technique and fitness.

It is not a product of just one or the other.

My fitness is great but my rowing is wretched.

Mike VB's rowing is great but his fitness is wretched.

Fitness and technique each contribute as much as fifteen seconds per 500m to the paces of a fit, able rower, given some rate over some distance, vis-a-vis the paces of an unfit, unable rower.

Mike VB's technique is just as good as younger rowers' , but he is right around fifteen seconds per 500m slower than they are, across the board.

That means that his fitness is pretty much nil.

He has lost it entirely.

His maxHR is 163 bpm, down from 230 bpm when he was younger.

I don't know about his full-body strength, but my guess is that he has lost a lot there, too.

According to _Rowing Faster_, by the time they are 60, on the average, men have lost 50% of their youthful full-body power.

In rowing, that's a disaster.

If you have no fitness, you can't rate up; and you can't take advantage of your good technique as you might in order to move the boat.

Vis-a-vis MIke VB, young rowers rate up right around 10 spm.

Mike VB does a 2K @ 28 spm.

Younger rowers do a 2K @ 38 spm.

Younger rowers do as well as 9 SPI moving the boat.

Mike VB has been doing as badly as 6 SPI in some of his recent workouts.

Younger rowers move their boats half again as well as Mike.

Mike can indeed row well (9 SPI, etc.), but he has a hard time sustaining it.

His fitness lets him down.

Sure, my technique is bad now, but it will continue to improve, and probably much more rapidly now that I am spending more time OTW.

It is also easier to work out the details of something once much of the task is done.

I don't know how long it will take, but I don't see any reason why I can't be an excellent sculler, just like anyone who masters the sport.

Then, when I put that technical mastery together with my my fitness, given my age, I will _really_ have something.

ranger

[ranger]

In training for any race, it is good to finish your race preparation with a couple of months of rowing that is quite a bit faster than race pace so that, when it comes time to race, the race you are training for seems slow and easy.

So, it's time to stop "Steamrollering" at 23 spm and a UT2 HR, and perhaps time to stop rowing at 23 spm and a UT2 HR OTW, too, and pick the rate up to something like 28 spm.

That's what I did this morning.

My stroke really flows now at these middlin' rates such as 28 spm--and without any loss in power.

At 28 spm, OTErg, I now go 1:40 (12.5 SPI).

The power in this stroke is now amazing.

Great stuff.

At 15 seconds per 500m over erg times, OTW, that's the equivalent of 1:55 @ 28 spm.

This morning: 15K OTErg working with 28 spm.

Over the next two months, a lot of daily rowing at 28 spm will prepare me nicely for both trials at the shorter distances OTErg and head races OTW.

And it will serve as a kind of faster "sharpening" for a FM trial, which I will do at 23 spm.

If I row a lot of 1:40 @ 28 spm from day to day, 1:48 @ 23 spm will feel like walking.

BTW, from what I could tell this morning, with my improved technique and high fitness, it looks as though I might be able to rate 28 spm, steady state, with my HR under my anaerobic threshold, that is, at top-end UT1.

If so, that would be amazing.

Top end UT1 is 2K + 10.

ranger

[ranger]

It's a good job you didn't get any entry for the HotC.

If I can get through a 5K OTW at sub-2:00 pace this fall, and I think I can, I will already be faster than any 60s rower has ever been.

No Veteran has ever rowed the HOCR at under 2:00 pace.

Then, sure, as I solve my problems with technique, one by one, I will get faster and faster and faster.

ranger

[macroth]

I see that the FM trial, which has been just around the corner/less than a month away for over 6 years now, has been pushed back at least another two months (eventually, if, you think, etc., etc., ad vomitum). Yawn...

But I have to say, nice water-trampoline skills, ranger!

[ranger]

There's v.little promise in the video you show... except for your great power.

"Promise" as a sculler?

I'm not sure how you can judge "promise."

If you mean that my technique can be improved enormously, sure, I agree.

To return the favor, I might say this:

I see v. little promise in your sculling, except for your great technique.

You will need to improve your fitness significantly if you want to win the HOCR.

You can't do it on technique alone.

You will have to hold your technique steady and rate up.

Can you?

From now on, Veterans at the HOCR will probably have to pull sub-2:00 pace to win.

At 15 seconds over erg times, that's 17:30 for 5K OTErg.

Are you up to it?

If so, let's see it.

This year, my goal for 5K OTErg is 16:30.

ranger

[PaulH]

If I can get through a 5K OTW at sub-2:00 pace this fall, and I think I can, I will already be faster than any 60s rower has ever been.

I like the delicate toying with timeframes here - the 'already' that suggests something that has been achieved, juxtaposed with the conditional 'if' that shows it hasn't.

[ranger]

THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO BE SAID UNTIL YOU COME UP WITH SOME REAL RESULT

I disagree entirely.

This is a training forum.

Training is an opportunity to get better.

So, what we should be discussing here is what we are doing in order to get better.

Training isn't at all about results.

Racing is about results.

Training is about what makes certain results possible.

Good training is about what precedes good results.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

If you know better, Byron, and coaching solves the difficulty, then you must be _very_ good. Post some video OTW of several passes by the dock, pulling 1:52 @ 30 spm.

You are blurring the distinction between two things. One is fitness and strength. The other is good technique, usually gained by good coaching. Good technique allows you to go nearly as fast as your fitness and strength allow. If you, with your bad technique, can go faster than someone older and smaller than you but who has better technique via good coaching, that does not prove that good coaching will not make you faster. All it would show is that good technique by itself does not guarantee you will beat somebody who is stronger.

R.A. is bigger, stronger, and just as fit as you are. He has excellent technique. Your only chance to compete with him is to improve your technique. Your self-coaching did not work, and you don't have all the time in the world to figure it out by yourself.