Ranger's training thread

[ben990]

...

I am strange.

In competition, at public venues, I last pulled a 7:02.3, etc.

That's normal for me now.

...

I am strange.

ranger

Fixed.

[hjs]

roy will not row 6.40, don't put that pressure on him, 6.50 would be ok and a nice target.

Sure, but Roy rowed 6:34 at weight not so many years ago. From what I read he probably has a better base now than then.

No pressure. Roy's a player

He did that at the top of his form, he had no more room to improve and in the years after that he started to become a bit slower, he is now older and slower, at age 55/60 the slowing down taking place and starting to accelerate.
The hole point of the naysayers is this simple fact, if you no start saying that does not take place, you are talking like the nutty one himslef.
Just like ranger, roy will not pb on the 2k again.

[ranger]

he had no more room to improve and in the years after that he started to become a bit slower

No, not at all.

He never came close to 6:34 in competition, even though he did races at public venues, repeatedly, ten or so, in the next two years.

Most of the time, he was 10 seconds slower, even though he was fully prepared.

The normal decline with age is about a second over 2K per year after 20.

Strange.

I have done a dozen races within five seconds or so of my pb, some of them years apart, most of them differing by only fractions of a second.

In competition, at public venues, I have puled 6:27.5, 6:28, 6:28.5, 6:29, 6:29.7, 6:30, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:33, etc.

That's a much more normal profile.

If I had prepared for my races after 2003, instead of training through them, continuing to work on technique, rowing at low rates, I suspect that they would have also been part of this series, in and around 6:30, chinking in the gaps, with a spread of less than a second per 500m on each side.

6:27. 6:27.5, 6:28, 6:28.5, 6:29, 6:29.7, 6:30, 6:30, 6:30, 6:30, 6:30.5, 6:30.9, 6:31.5, 6:31.7, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32.5, 6:33, etc.

30 of them?

ranger

[ranger]

Just like ranger, roy will not pb on the 2k again.

You're mixing apples and oranges in your judgments here.

Whether you can pb or not depends on your training, what you have done in order to improve.

Over the last eight years, I have dropped the drag (from max to 120 df.) and increased my stroking power 3 SPI from 10 SPI to 13 SPI.

That's a pretty big technical improvement.

Roy could also improve his technique, if he chose to.

And if he did, he could probably pb.

He would have to do quite a bit of pretty specific training concentrating on technique in order to do so, though:

A lot of rowing at low rates and high stroking powers, working on technique, until he was used to rowing well, pulling 13 SPI, as I am now.

I think you are right that Roy is probably not going to pb by just working on his fitness.

If he trains now as he did five years ago, just working on fitness, the prediction is that he will struggle to pull 6:40, and as you say, like The Viking and MIke VB, 6:50 might be a more likely outcome.

ranger

[hjs]

Just like ranger, roy will not pb on the 2k again.

You're mixing apples and oranges in your judgments here.

Whether you can pb or not depends on your training, what you have done in order to improve


ranger

on a simple piece of fitness equipment, fitness is by far the most important factor. You are a prima example, with just erging 2 x a hour a day, you pulled you lifetime best. After you you started thinking and experimenting but you never got your result of you first race again. And the last few years you are rapidly declining although you still have maximal fitness. I think that could be very well true. That maximal fitness is less and less worth.

Deal with it old man and that is for any 40 plus. we simply have to follow the law of nature. That a luni like you thinks he is above nature means just that you are a luni

[KipperTheDog]

Help! I'm new to this forum and Indoor Rowing. I've been reading through the Ranger Training Thread Forum and came across the below... related to a post I submitted (Titled: Beginners? 500m Split, Damper & Leg Force Relationship). Have I done something stupid or asked a question I shouldn't have?

The last thing I want is to get thrown off the forum for trolling.

Apologies, Andy

Moderator alert!

Check the following thread for trolling:

"Beginners? 500m Split, Damper & Leg Force Relationship"

Bob S.

Shot that one earlier. I think Ranger may be due for a ban for misquoting when PaulH gets back from his family vacation.

[aharmer]

Most people accept there is a gradual decline in athletic performance as we age. Exactly where that decline comes from is the source of wide debate. What we have not discussed here, but is extremely relevant, is the effect of alcohol on the performance of our left ventricle. Prolonged use of alcohol diminishes the capacity of our left ventricle, the heart's pump. I believe we look no further than this for our subject's recent inability to perform at his desire level.

[ranger]

After that you started thinking and experimenting but you never got your result of you first race again.

What I have been thinking about isn't the issue, although what I have been experimenting with in training certainly is.

The most important issues, though are these:

(1) I haven't prepared to race since 2003.

(2) I didn't complete my work on technique until just recently (this spring?).

So I haven't even tried to get a "result" yet: fully prepared, rowing well (13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.), as I do now.

Sure, if after I race for a season, fully prepared, now that my work on technique is done, and I still don't pb, I'll be happy to agree with you.

But your judgment is premature at the moment.

I have never raced yet, rowing well at low drag, much less rowing well at low drag and fully prepared.

My race preparation is just beginning.

I haven't done one distance trial yet, much less all of them.

And I haven't done even one sharpening workout, much less all of them, repeatedly, for a couple of months, as you need to do to get fully prepared to race.

We'll know my potential for 2K rowing well at low drag _very_ soon.

The result of my FM trials will tell the story, long before I do all of the other distance trials and sharpening workouts.

A FM is done at 2K + 14.

ranger

[ranger]

[removed]

ranger

[ranger]

Most people accept there is a gradual decline in athletic performance as we age.

My fitness is declining with age, just like everyone else's.

But over the last eight years, what I have improved with my training has nothing to do with fitness.

I have improved my technique.

Rowing is not just about fitness.

It is also highly technical.

In fact, in rowing, technique and fitness are about equally important.

Each can account for as much as 10 seconds per 500m.

Sure.

My fitness has probably declined a couple of seconds per 500m since the end of 2003, when I pulled a lwt 6:28.

But I suspect that my technique is half again as good as it was then, a gain of as much as five seconds per 500m over 2K.

Back in 2003, I rowed at max drag, anchor-hauling with my back, without using my legs and arms much at all, and without sequencing and timing the use of my levers. Amazingly, I rowed on my toes. I never set my heels. That means that I rowed without my hams and glutes, whose contribution is essential to a good/effective/efficient rowing stroke, especially OTW. Because of the high drag, I short-slided, which reduced the contribution of my quads. And because I rowed almost exclusively with my back, I finished with my back as well, which undermined the contribution of my arms at the finish. I used no footwork at all. I just stayed on my toes.

ranger

[ausrwr]

Help! I'm new to this forum and Indoor Rowing. I've been reading through the Ranger Training Thread Forum and came across the below... related to a post I submitted (Titled: Beginners? 500m Split, Damper & Leg Force Relationship). Have I done something stupid or asked a question I shouldn't have?

The last thing I want is to get thrown off the forum for trolling.

Apologies, Andy

Moderator alert!

Check the following thread for trolling:

"Beginners? 500m Split, Damper & Leg Force Relationship"

Bob S.

Shot that one earlier. I think Ranger may be due for a ban for misquoting when PaulH gets back from his family vacation.

I think there's no problem with you, it may be that numbnuts has replied to a thread he's not allowed to. He's banned from threads that aren't his own.

[ranger]

Rich Cureton. 7:02 at BIRC. But "much better than that now". Yeah, right.

Sure.

I didn't get my weight right, as I haven't in several races.

I have to get my weight right to row well as a lighweight; otherwise, I have to dehydrate, starve, etc., and end up with no energy to do the race.

Roy has the same problem, of course.

At WIRC 2006, I pulled 7min+ as well, and for the same reason, a week after pulling 6:29.7 at 12 SPI, without even preparing for it.

ranger

[ranger]

No rowing OTW yet today because of the wind and rain.

But I got out for a nice 25-mile bike ride as a second session, after 15K of "Steamrollering" OTErg.

Easy stuff.

85min, 17.2 MPH

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

No rowing OTW yet today because of the wind and rain.

More rotten luck on getting that 1K trial OTW done. Yesterday it was fishermen. Today it is wind and rain. I wonder what tomorrow will bring.

[bellboy]

No rowing OTW yet today because of the wind and rain.

More rotten luck on getting that 1K trial OTW done. Yesterday it was fishermen. Today it is wind and rain. I wonder what tomorrow will bring.

What are the odd's on an early snowfall Byron? Iv got ten quid burning a hole in my pocket at the moment!