Ranger's training thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
snowleopard
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by snowleopard » August 19th, 2011, 10:47 am

hjs wrote:A big point is the surface the ergs are on, on a rough surface there is no problem, on a slippery one there are easily problems, has not much to do with power.
snowleopard [earlier] wrote:Gravity and friction are more than enough to overcome anything you can throw at the footplate. No doubt you have only observed this phenomenon on a polished floor.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 19th, 2011, 10:53 am

snowleopard wrote:Where is your proof that EE tapes down his erg?
I watched him do it.

Unlike you, I have also won races at international regattas that EE rowed in, too.

I was there.

I saw him race.

I have been to BIRC and WIRC three times each, EIRC twice.

That's eight.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ben990 » August 19th, 2011, 11:09 am

ranger wrote:
snowleopard wrote:Where is your proof that EE tapes down his erg?
... eight.

ranger
Eight minutes for a 2K OTE?! Don't sell yourself short. You can do better than eight minutes OTE for a 2K. Isn't your recent best 2K a 7:02.3? Why I bet right now you could do a 7:15 or so without any sharpening!

You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people like you.
Rich Cureton M 60 hwt 5'11" 180 lbs. 7:02.3 (lwt) 2K

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 19th, 2011, 11:21 am

mikvan52 wrote: Do you want to measure yourself against someone else w/i 16 months of your age..

This is basically a 10 x 1k workout

2 sets of 5x (4' on / 3' off) with a 5' break between sets.

Here's the data:

4:00 @ 2:02 & 27 spm 107 strokes
4:00 @ 2:03 & 27 spm 109 strokes
4:00 @ 2:03 & 26.5......106 strokes
4:00 @ 2:06 & 28.0......111 strokes
4:00 @ 2:03 & 27.5......110 strokes

5' break

4:00 @ 2:06 & 25.0......101 strokes
4:00 @ 2:08 & 26.0......103 strokes
4:00 @ 2:10 & 25.5......102 strokes
4:00 @ 2:07 & 26.0......104 strokes
4:00 @ 2:00 & 30.0......120 strokes

Total strokes for 40' of intervals = 1073 = 26.8 spm at and avg of 2:04.8/500m pace.
Mike--

At 15 seconds per 500m over erg times at the same rate, this is the equivalent of 10 x 1K, 1:50 @ 26 spm (3min rest between intervals, 5 minutes rest between sets) OTErg.

That's absurdly easy.

I am training for a FM, 1:48 @ 23 spm.

That's 42 x 1K, 1:48 @ 23 spm (no rest).

In 2003, I did 20 x 1K @ 1:43 (paddle a 1K inbetween).

In order to hit my 2K target this year, I'll need to do 20 x 1K, 1:40 @ 27 spm (paddle a 1K in between).

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by snowleopard » August 19th, 2011, 11:45 am

ranger wrote:
snowleopard wrote:Where is your proof that EE tapes down his erg?
I watched him do it.

Unlike you, I have also won races at international regattas that EE rowed in, too.
Wow! Lovin' that humble "I love me" non sequitur :lol: :lol: :lol:

Coming from you, that isn't proof BTW.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ausrwr » August 19th, 2011, 11:52 am

ranger wrote:
snowleopard wrote:Where is your proof that EE tapes down his erg?
I watched him do it.

Unlike you, I have also won races at international regattas that EE rowed in, too.

I was there.

I saw him race.

I have been to BIRC and WIRC three times each, EIRC twice.

That's eight.

ranger
Rich, you've never rowed at a regatta. You've done erg competitions. For rowers, a regatta is a mulit-lane race, on the water. It can be head to head (like Henley or University duals) to a a six lane regatta like the world championships. It also involves multiple boat classes.

For those reasons, a head race is a head race, and not a regatta. The Boat Race is not a regatta. WIRC/BIRC are not regattas.

And even a person with a complete lack of interest in things other than themselves might have noticed that ALL the ergs at erg races are taped down. Not just EE's. Or, with your abiding knowledge (and somewhat creepy man crush on him), do you know that he tapes his erg down when he does sessions in Denmark?

Like your ideas on rowing, you have no knowledge, or interest. You'll co-opt anyone and anything to attempt to give your idiocy some credibility.

If your erg is jumping around like you think is advisable, you're going to be going very slowly in the water (as if there was any doubt of that being the truth). How much of the stern do you bury underneath the water as you miss the first half of the drive?
Rich Cureton. 7:02 at BIRC. But "much better than that now". Yeah, right.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » August 19th, 2011, 11:58 am

ranger wrote:
mikvan52 wrote:What's your point?
??

I thought my question was pretty clear.

Is Matt Pinsett any good in a 1x?

What has he done for 2K in a 1x?

ranger
Rich: Don't be a total turkey!

I didn't say "what's your point"

Any way: (I think) Snowlep's point is the same as mine... Sir Matthew moves a boat, knows how to move a boat, and is too smart to respond to trolls... (unlike me) He'd be polite and would barely smile condescendingly if he ever read the tripe you go on and on about..

RIch: The erg is for watt-producers... Elite OTW guys can produce watts but they have additional skills , such as moving a boat.... Elite boat skills cannot be learned on the erg.. as you have proved so abundantly. Your video and reported OTW split times confirm this.

You claim to have rowed 100 million meters on the erg and (maybe) 10 million otw. What is the result?.... Answer:
A floating bobble hat in the Grand River?
Am I out of line here? Do you have some un reported infirmity with your inner ear?
Why do you put clogs in your racing 1x? (see photo in his C2.uk blog)
Are you that imbalanced? Do you want to scull slowly? with the equivalent of training wheels on a bike?

You "work is done", you'd have us believe... :shock:
Last edited by mikvan52 on August 19th, 2011, 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » August 19th, 2011, 12:11 pm

ranger wrote:
mikvan52 wrote: Do you want to measure yourself against someone else w/i 16 months of your age..

This is basically a 10 x 1k workout

2 sets of 5x (4' on / 3' off) with a 5' break between sets.

Here's the data:

4:00 @ 2:02 & 27 spm 107 strokes
4:00 @ 2:03 & 27 spm 109 strokes
4:00 @ 2:03 & 26.5......106 strokes
4:00 @ 2:06 & 28.0......111 strokes
4:00 @ 2:03 & 27.5......110 strokes

5' break

4:00 @ 2:06 & 25.0......101 strokes
4:00 @ 2:08 & 26.0......103 strokes
4:00 @ 2:10 & 25.5......102 strokes
4:00 @ 2:07 & 26.0......104 strokes
4:00 @ 2:00 & 30.0......120 strokes

Total strokes for 40' of intervals = 1073 = 26.8 spm at and avg of 2:04.8/500m pace.
Mike--

At 15 seconds per 500m over erg times at the same rate, this is the equivalent of 10 x 1K, 1:50 @ 26 spm (3min rest between intervals, 5 minutes rest between sets) OTErg.

That's absurdly easy.

I am training for a FM, 1:48 @ 23 spm.

That's 42 x 1K, 1:48 @ 23 spm (no rest).

In 2003, I did 20 x 1K @ 1:43 (paddle a 1K inbetween).

In order to hit my 2K target this year, I'll need to do 20 x 1K, 1:40 @ 27 spm (paddle a 1K in between).

ranger
"absurd" as it may seem to you, the OTW workout above cannot be equalled by you. :)

How did the 1ks go this morning or have you stayed at home to post'n'boast..

(I notice that this thread, today, is becoming quite disjointed in absurd: Random Ranger Rubbish)... stop misquoting ..it will make things easier.

New question: Would you rather row otw like Graham Benton or Matthew Pinsent?

Can you see from the video links I posted earlier that overloading the front end of the OTW stroke will actually slow the boat down?

You might be interested to hear what Brad A. Lewis sez about being "patient" with the drive (In sculling)
I say: Pinsent in patient with his drive in the 2- similar to good sculling...
No doubt he has spent countless hours in the 1x out of Leander Club (along with his mate Sir Steve) {you've heard of Sir Steve, too haven't you? DId you know that SIr Steve once won the Diamond Sculls at Henley ('81 (?))....

Do you think that Pinsent and Redgrave had to match styles in ordetr to n=move the 2- as well as they did? hmmm?
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

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Byron Drachman
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Byron Drachman » August 19th, 2011, 12:34 pm

Ranger wrote:Lots of boats on the lake today, with fisherman in the middle. So I couldn't do 1K trials.
What rotten luck. Day after day we heard you were the only one on the water with perfect conditions, and the first time you are going to do trials there are fishermen. But you get high marks for giving a new reason for not doing a trial. Usually fishermen park in one spot but they are a menace because you never know when they are going to cast a line or move to a different location. It would require an awareness and steering skills to deal with that danger.

You were wise to avoid attempting something as treacherous as doing a 1K piece under those conditions. Better safe than sorry. Best is to wait until you have the entire lake to yourself.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » August 19th, 2011, 12:57 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:
Ranger wrote:Lots of boats on the lake today, with fisherman in the middle. So I couldn't do 1K trials.
What rotten luck. Day after day we heard you were the only one on the water with perfect conditions, and the first time you are going to do trials there are fishermen. But you get high marks for giving a new reason for not doing a trial. Usually fishermen park in one spot but they are a menace because you never know when they are going to cast a line or move to a different location. It would require an awareness and steering skills to deal with that danger.

You were wise to avoid attempting something as treacherous as doing a 1K piece under those conditions. Better safe than sorry. Best is to wait until you have the entire lake to yourself.
Such an excellent assessment, Byron

Hey: Rich read no further if you don't want coaching tips...

"One of the unique aspects of rowing is that novices strive to perfect the same motions as Olympic contenders. Few other sports can make this claim. In figure skating, for instance, the novice practices only simple moves. After years of training, the skater then proceeds to the jumps and spins that make up an elite skater's program. But the novice rower, from day one, strives to duplicate a motion that he'll still be doing on the day of the Olympic finals." -- Brad Alan Lewis from WANTED: Rowing Coach
from
http://www.ignatiuscrew.com/sicontent/siquotes.asp

as Korzo sez:

“not white man playin’ basketball!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT6CpYnejMI

members of this quad went on to beat Poland *(the WCs) at Lucerne, 2008... but I guess they should have stayed on the erg according to ranger...

Jamie Schroeder was the the heart of the Lucerne boat... Remember him, Rich?
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

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Byron Drachman
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Byron Drachman » August 19th, 2011, 1:38 pm

mikvan52 wrote:
Byron Drachman wrote:
Ranger wrote:Lots of boats on the lake today, with fisherman in the middle. So I couldn't do 1K trials.
What rotten luck. Day after day we heard you were the only one on the water with perfect conditions, and the first time you are going to do trials there are fishermen. But you get high marks for giving a new reason for not doing a trial. Usually fishermen park in one spot but they are a menace because you never know when they are going to cast a line or move to a different location. It would require an awareness and steering skills to deal with that danger.

You were wise to avoid attempting something as treacherous as doing a 1K piece under those conditions. Better safe than sorry. Best is to wait until you have the entire lake to yourself.
Such an excellent assessment, Byron

Hey: Rich read no further if you don't want coaching tips...

"One of the unique aspects of rowing is that novices strive to perfect the same motions as Olympic contenders. Few other sports can make this claim. In figure skating, for instance, the novice practices only simple moves. After years of training, the skater then proceeds to the jumps and spins that make up an elite skater's program. But the novice rower, from day one, strives to duplicate a motion that he'll still be doing on the day of the Olympic finals." -- Brad Alan Lewis from WANTED: Rowing Coach
from
http://www.ignatiuscrew.com/sicontent/siquotes.asp

as Korzo sez:

“not white man playin’ basketball!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT6CpYnejMI

members of this quad went on to beat Poland *(the WCs) at Lucerne, 2008... but I guess they should have stayed on the erg according to ranger...

Jamie Schroeder was the the heart of the Lucerne boat... Remember him, Rich?
Hi Mike,

From pages 133-134 of Brad Lewis's Wanted: Rowing Coach
Ergometers--I hate them. They don't factor in body control, balance. Zero penalty points are deduced if you slam into the catch like a madman. If you were to make that same slam-catch in a single scull or straight pair, the boat would stop dead in its tracks. Clement is a good example. He's our best athlee by lengths, and yet in a single scull even Gordo has his number. Perhaps I would feel differently about riding the iron maiden had I reached even a modest level of success. By any measure, however, I was sub-par on the ergometer and not even a ten-year massaging of my memory can alter the facts.
This from a gold medalist.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » August 19th, 2011, 2:13 pm

Byron:
Shouldn't you be filing this one away for future mirth & merriment? :
ranger on August 19th, 2011 wrote:
OTW, I'll do a lot of rowing at 32 spm over the next couple of weeks before I go back in Ann Arbor until I get in a good 1K @ 1:50.
He has spoken!

I hear from this that ranger will not be returning to Ann Arbor this fall... :P

"Lots of boats on the lake today, with fisherman"
Probably CIA! With cameras...

"nay-sayers" out to destroy my
SPI Theory


Rich: Isn't it quite a jump for a novice sculler to go from 24 to 32 spm ?
Don't forget you have the FM and last year's "unfinished business"...??

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Brunsie » August 19th, 2011, 2:20 pm

ranger wrote:
Brunsie wrote:If you want to work hard and achieve something significant then I don't think anyone would belittle you for saying it, especially if asked.
ranger wrote:Really? Happy to hear that. I didn't think you were saying that at all. In fact, I thought that you said explicitly that being humble is regarding what you do as insignificant, even if it is indeed significant. This just seems sad to me. What is to motivate action, if we regard everything we do as insignificant?

You F'ng POS, you show me where I said anything like that!! You know damn well I did not say that explicitly or any other way. If you are going to make the accusation you better be able to back it up so show us where I said that.

ranger wrote:
Brunsle wrote:If you constantly ran around spouting off about it over an over it would still come across as a bit arrogant and narcissistic but at least you would have "earned" the right to say it. Never have I suggested you should lie about your accomplishments.
ranger wrote:I have three WR rows. I have six sub-6:30 rows as a _very_ light veteran, half of these sub-6:30 rows as a lightweight. I have had the best 2K for my age and weight five out of the last nine years, even though I wasn't even preparing to race most of those years, with sub-6:30 rows as a heavyweight two of the other years. No one my age and weight has ever rowed that fast. I have won all of the major championships, BIRC twice. Etc. No male veteran indoor rower over the last 10 years has a much better record of accomplishment in the sport. Sorry. But it's not like I haven't done anything in the sport and don't know what I am talking about.

Well when I looked up the WR's I did not see you holding even one WR let alone 3. Please point me to where you hold any WR's. But, the bigger problem here is that you endlessly spout off about accomplishments that you have not even come close to. So in regards to the WR's that you once held, you do come off as a bit of an arrogant and narcissistic SOB by constantly talking about those past accomplishments, however by your never ending blather about your fictional current accomplishments you come across as a complete and total asshat, the most arrogant and narcissistic person ever and a person without an ounce of humility. And as per your own statement the fact that you have not an ounce of humility is proof you do not work hard and you do not have high standards for yourself.
ranger wrote:
Brunsle wrote:You however claim to achieved something that would have a little bit of significance if you had actually done it however you have failed miserably at achieving it.
ranger wrote:Not at all. I haven't failed at anything associated with my rowing. So far, I have achieved all of my goals--in spades. With respect to my recent achievements, I am just preparing to race to show the results. My goal in training over the last eight years was to learn to row well (13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.). Back in 2003, I pulled a lwt 6:28 rowing badly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.). I was a total novice. I didn't know how to row. In rowing, rowing well vs. rowing badly can be worth as much as 10 seconds per 500m. My fitness has been maximal for a decade, so the only way I could improve was to improve my technique. Sure, it took some time. But I have now done this, both OTErg and OTW. I am now preparing to race to see how this technical improvement might bear on my 2K. I will prepare to race by doing trials from the top down, from a FM to 500m. When I am done with these trials, I will do standard sharping workouts (8 x 500m, etc.) for a couple of months to bring up my anaerobic capacities. Then I will race. I won't know how my technical improvement bears on my 2K racings until I am fully prepared to race in this way.

Bullshit, you have not achieved all your goals, in spades or otherwise. For way longer than I have been watching this debacle you have had a goal of a 6:16 2K. YOU HAVE NOT MET IT DUMBASS. You had a goal for a 1.46 or 1.48 pace or whatever for a FM. YOU HAVE NOT MET IT DUMBASS. You have had goals for every ranked distance from 2K to FM. YOU HAVE NOT MET THEM DUMBASS. I can not for the life of me figure out how you cannot see that you have not met even one of those goals.

You claim SPI is the standard by which you judge an erg stroke. You have claimed for years you erg at your goal of 13SPI, you claim you keep improving your stroke over all these years yet you still pull the same 13SPI that you did a few years ago, even by your own standard you have not made any improvement. The rest of the worlds standard on rowing well on the erg is what kind of time one covers over a rated distance, and by the rest of the worlds standard you have not only not gotten better, you actually are getting worse.


ranger wrote:
Brunsle wrote: Why don't you save your claims for when you actually achieve it.
ranger wrote:My claims about rowing well at low drag? Why? I have indeed achieved it. No veteran rower has ever rowed well, much less a 60s veteran. 60s veterans have missed it by seven seconds per 500m, 4 SPI, 50 kgF of peak force, a mile over 60min, 16 _minutes_ over a FM, etc.

No DUMBASS your claims of being able to row a 1.46 or 1.48 pace for 15k like you say you do every morning, your claims of how you row on the water yet provide no proof. We all know you can "row well at low drag", at least for a few strokes, you make much bigger claims than being able to do it for a few strokes but you can't. Once you can "row well at low drag" for any ranked distance and at the rates you claim, prove it and then you can talk about achieving it, until then you have not achieved it.

No one care what others have missed, because apparently you have missed the fact that you too have missed it.
ranger wrote:
Brunsle wrote: At this point I believe there is a higher likely hood that someone completely unknown to the erg'ing world will show up and "absolutely (gobsmackingly) blow the hell out of all current standards in senior and veteran erging from 40-70 years old" than there is any chance you will do it.
ranger wrote:Why is that? Ironically, this person, whoever it might be, would have to put themselves through exactly the training I have put myself through for the last eight years if they wanted to be in a position to pull 6:16 at 60. Their fitness would have to be maximal, and they would have to row well at low drag. As a lightweight, that would mean they would have to pull something like 13 SPI, just naturally. No 60s lwt has ever pulled much more than 10 SPI. I have suggested some reasons for this (the emphasis of standard training plans for rowing on fitness, etc.), but in any event, whoever might train themselves to pull a lwt 6:16 at 60 would have to overcome a pretty enormous burden of tradition in the sport. Do you really think this could happen out of the blue? I doubt it. You can't pull great erg lightweight erg scores just by being big, as you can as a heavyweight. The weight limitation on lightweight rowing makes it so size is no factor. If you are going to go faster, by a wide margin, that anyone has ever gone before, you have to do it on skill and fitness. Delivering at some gobsmacking level on even one of these (skill vs. fitness) is difficult when you are 60. Delivering on both of them, I think, just can't happen out of the blue.No way.

ranger

Once again your arrogance is astounding. First of all you missed the fact that my statement was a derogatory remark towards you rather than saying anything about this fictional person. Second of all your arrogance makes you think there is only one way to accomplish something, with this you are wrong. I can not tell you another way to accomplish your goal but I will guarantee you there is another way. You on the other hand cannot pull a 6:16 period.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 19th, 2011, 2:22 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Rich: Isn't it quite a jump for a novice sculler to go from 24 to 32 spm?
I suspect it would be quite a jump for me to go from 32 spm to 40 spm, but no, it's no jump at all to go from 24 spm to 32 spm.

I don't have any problem with 32 spm.

My rowing is now pretty clean (with only a couple remaining problems).

I maintain my technique (my SPI, etc.), on the button, right up the rate ladder.

It would be especially easy to do these higher ratings OTW if I start doing some 1Ks, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI), on the erg.

The major difficulty for me at the moment is not technique but lack of 1K race preparation.

As you know, I have just been rowing at 23 spm, preparing for a FM, OTErg.

I haven't been pushing my HR to max.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » August 19th, 2011, 2:23 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:
Hi Mike,

From pages 133-134 of Brad Lewis's Wanted: Rowing Coach
Ergometers--I hate them. They don't factor in body control, balance. Zero penalty points are deduced if you slam into the catch like a madman. If you were to make that same slam-catch in a single scull or straight pair, the boat would stop dead in its tracks. Clement is a good example. He's our best athlete by lengths, and yet in a single scull even Gordo has his number. Perhaps I would feel differently about riding the iron maiden had I reached even a modest level of success. By any measure, however, I was sub-par on the ergometer and not even a ten-year massaging of my memory can alter the facts.
This from a gold medalist.
Thanks for that... I don't have that book yet... I never knew Lewis would go that far... dissing the iron maiden...

Rich: Notice the stated equivalency of the straight pair (2-) with the single scull (1x)?
Do you want to revise your statements about Pinsent any? Just a tad?? :|

Naturally, ranger will come back with "the best ergers make the best scullers" (troll bait obstructionist that he is) and then leave it at that..

Who says that ranger "doesn't know Jack", anyway?

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