Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Mike--

Rowing a bunch of slow 1Ks at low rates has nothing to do with getting better at rowing.

It is just race preparation, trying to see whether, this year, your poor old self can get in the same shape as your poor old self last year, with perhaps only a little decline with age.

Sorry.

Good luck with it, but it sounds like a roaring bore to me.

Sounds to me like you aren't doing anything that you haven't done before--physically, mentally, technically, etc.

Just more of the same?

More of the same?

Hey, here is an idea.

Why not try to drop your FM pace OTErg 10 seconds per 500m?

Now, _that_ would be something to hoot about!

Yowwwweeeeeeee.

Or how about this:

Have you ever tried playing the banjo?



ranger

[aharmer]

What does your NK SL2 say when you practice 1k at (say) 22 spm?

8.5 SPI @ 22spm is 2:03.

Sure.

I can now do 1Ks at that, if I want to "perform" them, rather than continuing to learn how to row.

Sure.

I would be happy to record some performances, although it is a waste of time to do so.

I spend 15K each morning, pulling 1:45 @ 23 spm OTErg, to work on my fitness _before_ I row OTW.

No need to work on my fitness while I am rowing OTW, too.

ranger

This reasoning would lead the average person to believe that he was willing to show proof of his 15k erg sessions that are done at 1:46/23 every day. Unfortunately the uninformed will soon learn that this 15k at 1:46/23 actually takes an hour (2:00 pace) and he occasionally revs it up to 1:46/23 for several strokes before paddling for a few minutes to rest. Magically, something is going to happen one day, allowing him to complete a FM at this pace and rate when he couldn't do a 2k at this pace and rate today.

Sorry, edited to add: As usual you reserve the right to prove me wrong by showing anywhere from 2k up to 15k nonstop at 1:46/23.

[ranger]

he occasionally revs it up to 1:46/23 for several strokes before paddling for a few minutes to rest

Well...

If it's 2:00 pace overall, that's an average of 14 seconds rest every 500m.

So, say, four minutes rest every 5K?

For 15K?

Have you tried this?

Pulling 1:45 @ 23 spm (13 SPI) on every stroke?

Please do, and report back, telling us what you think.

When you are done, I suspect that the pools of sweat under your erg will be at least as big as the pools of sweat under mine.

For a 60s lwt, this is just practice: rowing well.

In the history of the sport, no one much over 40 years old has ever rowed well; and you _certainly_ can't do something (easily, 3500 times over without stopping, as I will do in my FM trial) if you never practice it.

ranger

P.S. You could also break the rowing into 1Ks with 30 seconds rest, if you would like. Or 2Ks with one minute rest. Or two 7.5Ks with eight minutes rest in between.

P.P.S. You also need to keep the HR restriction. I never let my HR go over 75% HRR (for me, 155 bpm), which will be a limit for me in a FM trial.

[ranger]

Magically, something is going to happen one day

Lordy.

The effects of good training are "magical"?

I have always thought that training effects are the product of practice, habit formation, conditioning, habituation, hard work, etc.

Silly me.

ranger

[Citroen]

Any questions?

Yes. Please refer to my earlier [unanswered] post

I wonder if Tricky Dicky has devised an abstract, relativistic, principled relation between laminar, transitional and turbulent flow and SPI

Remember in Rangerland fluid mechanics doesn't work the same as fluid mechanics in the real world, there's no drag on the boat in Rangerland so boat pace can always be identical to ergo pace (regardless of any environmental factors), thus boat "SPI" (whatever the fuck that means) is identical to ergo SPI (which is equally fucking meaningless).

[mikvan52]

On the water: I say that I row at
2:03 @ 22 spm
with no calibration. (This means 2:06 @ 22 in the real world...)

I go with the best numbers I can make up .

No need to work on my (form) while I am rowing OTW, too.

I have gotten 25% better over the last three years.

which is a lie for purposes of being a troll on the internet

Rich:

2:03 @ 22 spm and 1.00 calibration is not good. Your Fluid needs to be test run over an accurately measured course. Then show us what you can really do.



Also:
You should work on your sculling stroke at 5k pace and 10k pace and 1k pace and 2k pace if you ever want to win a race on the water.
You aren't working hard enough on OTW technique. You need honest effort while doing this. You also need coaching as your understanding of what makes a boat move is flawed
You are wasting your time on the erg and pretending to be getting very fast OTW.
Why is this?
Show us some NK SL2 data to attempt to support your wild claims.

As I mentioned earlier today you could easily take some shots like these:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 65d&type=1

Also:
Where's a current OTW video that you've promised for over a year?

Which head race will you definitely participate in this fall?

Such a mystery! Wow.

[ranger]

2:03 @ 22 spm and 1.00 calibration is not good.

Sure it is. At .975 calibration, that's 2:06 @ 22 spm. That's 7.75 SPI, _waaaay_ better than you've been doing in your recent workouts. You've been doing 2:06 @ 26 spm, etc. That's only 6.6 SPI. 7.75 SPI is 12% better than that. Only 8 of the 46 boats in the Veterans race at the HOCR last year did 2:06 pace, and those that did weren't rating 22 spm.

Your Fluid needs to be test run over an accurately measured course. Then show us what you can really do.

No it doesn't. I can just calibrate my speed coach with my Garmin Forerunner 201. I'll get this done as soon as possible. As I mentioned, nothing crucial about my improvement depends on this. In the 2008 video, I am going 2:00 @ 30 spm with the same calibration. I'll now get a video doing 1:52 @ 30 spm with that calibration, a 25% improvement.

You should work on your sculling stroke at 5k pace and 10k pace and 1k pace and 2k pace if you ever want to win a race on the water.

Sure. All in good time. I don't have any problem at all at a whole range of rates, all the way from 14 to 40.

You aren't working hard enough on OTW technique. You need honest effort while doing this.

I am rowing 10K a day OTW, after 15K OTErg. All the time I am OTW I work on technique. The results of this work have been excellent. I am now 25% better than I was there years ago. That's quite an improvement. Hey. It appears I am now as good as you.

You also need coaching as your understanding of what makes a boat move is flawed

Not if my boat is moving beautifully, as it now it. Hey. That's the only test, no?

You are wasting your time on the erg

Not at all. OTErg, I both work on technique and maintain a level of fitness that is somewhat unprecedented for a 60s rower. This will come in _very_ handy when I start racing OTW.

Show us some NK SL2 data

Happy to do some 1Ks over the next couple of weeks at all sorts of rates, paces, and HRs. That should give you an idea of what I can do.

Where's a current OTW video that you've promised for over a year?

I can't take the video. I have to have my wife take it. When I am rowing, she is asleep. But I suppose I can get her up at the crack of dawn and over to Europe Lake one of these days. I will be happy to get you another video, as I said, some 1:52 @ 30 spm might be good, but including some rowing at all other rates, including some near top speed (e.g., 40 spm). What is your best time for 500m? Can you do sub-1:40, which is comparable to sub-1:25 OTErg?

Which head race will you definitely participate in this fall?

I have a job, a wife, three children, and many other responsibilities which take precedence over my rowing. So my rowing can never have any "definite plans." I just do it when I can, given other constraints. I am also not going to travel far and waste my time rowing if the weather is bad. I am too busy for that while I am teaching, as I will be in the fall. I have already said what my ideal scenario for racing would be. I'd like to race every weekend from 9/17 to 10/30. That would be good experience. Sure, my steering was a debacle, but I didn't have any problem with the rowing in the Lansing head race last year at all. When I got off course I was about 3K down the course, just putzing along, 2:10 @ 24 spm. I wasn't working that hard at all.

Such a mystery! Wow.

No mystery in learning to row well--at all. It's fun. Don't you think?

ranger

[ranger]

thus boat "SPI" (whatever the fuck that means) is identical to ergo SPI

No need for identity.

Approximation is fine, for practical purposes.

There's just a need to scale pace per stroke OTW in some way that represents pretty well, in a relative manner, the work done per stroke.

Given the pretty firm relationship between OTW times and OTErg times at the same rate for those who are lean and row well, using watts on the erg works nicely as a scale.

ranger

[Bob S.]

which is a lie for purposes of being a troll on the internet

Such a mystery! Wow.

The only mystery here is the amazing success of all this trolling.

Bob S.

[aharmer]

Okay you complete fraud, we can do it this way. In response to my previous post you infer that you could do 30 x 500 at 1:46/23 with 15 second rest. You also infer you could do 15 x 1000 with 30 seconds rest, etc.

My contention was that IF you ever saw 1:46/23 during the piece, it was for several strokes, meaning about 10. Show us just one of those 1:46/23 2k's with a flat HR. Anybody can do 15k in an hour and do a power 10 at 1:46/23 once in a while.

As usual you reserve the right to prove me wrong by showing ANYTHING.

PS. how often do I come on here and claim to be on the precipice of breaking the open FM world record, then refuse to post a single shred of proof that I can even perform a 6:50 2k? If you ever show any proof of your claims I will oblige any screenshot or workout you wish. Until then you're nothing but an alcoholic old troll (and a damn good one at that) who deserves zero respect until you own up to your laughable lies.

[ranger]

You are wasting your time on the erg

Two responses to this:

(1) No, _I_ don't waste my time on the erg. When I am on the erg, I row well. Therefore, my erging helps my OTW rowing directly. Again, you are talking about yourself. It is _you_ who wastes time OTErg, because when you row OTErg, you row poorly. If you row poorly OTErg, it both hurts your OTW rowing and does nothing for your erging. As your fitness declines with age, you just get worse and worse.

(2) The erg is my first priority. I am an erger turning into an OTW rower, not an OTW rower who uses the erg for winter training. Again, you are talking about _your_ priorities, not mine. My first project is a 6:16 2K at 60 OTErg, not winning rowing races OTW. If I hit all of my targets on the erg this year, I will set _all_ of the 60s WRs OTErg, both heavyweight and lightweight, perhaps with the exception of Castellan's 60s hwt sprint records for 500m and 1K. For me, that will be a pretty satisfying thing to do after a decade of participation in the sport. If I indeed pull a lwt 6:16 2K at 60, it will never be beaten. The record will be permanent. In fact, if I get to weight and hit all of my distance targets at weight, all of the lightweight standards I set will be permanent. No 60s lwt will ever be that fast as any of the distances. The standards will better existing 60s lwt standards by 6-12 seconds per 500m, across the board. It is one of the most satisfying things imaginable to leave behind a permanent legacy in some activity, whatever that activity might be--career, family, business, civic service, sport, art, literature, music, architecture, landscape, etc.

ranger

[ranger]

My contention was that IF you ever saw 1:46/23 during the piece, it was for several strokes, meaning about 10

_All_ of the strokes I take rowing to "Steamroller" in my erg sessions are at 23 spm and 1:45-1:48.

That's the point: to row (pretty darn) well on every stroke.

The question I asked you was whether you have ever tried this.

If not, you should give it a go.

It would halp your rowing.

BTW, why don't you list your age and weight in your profile?

Your time for 2K is not very relevant information about your level of accomplishment, if you don't cite your age and weight.

ranger

[snowleopard]

It is one of the most satisfying things imaginable to leave behind a permanent legacy in some activity, whatever that activity might be--career, family, business, civic service, sport, art, literature, music, architecture, landscape, etc.

Sorry, are we talking about 60+ lwt records on a piece of gym equipment? One of the least contested categories in _any_ sporting discipline?

Oh yeah, that's right up there with Bill Gates, Henry Kissinger, Steve Redgrave, Da Vinci, Dickens, Mozart, Michaelangelo and Capability Brown.

Get real ffs.

[ranger]

Sorry, are we talking about 60+ lwt records on a piece of gym equipment? One of the least contested categories in _any_ sporting discipline?

Yep.

The legacy would be _amazing_, the best in the sport, by far.

It would be permanent.

No one would ever beat it.

The 60s lwt standards would best all of the 50s lwt standards, and 40s--including Rod Freed's amazing 50s lwt distance standards.

These 60s lwt standards would represent the best lwt rowing OTErg by anyone in the history of the sport beyond their 30s.

ranger

[Citroen]

The legacy would be _amazing_, the best in the sport, by far.

Dream on, you old twat.