Ranger's training thread

[aharmer]

If I now pull a FM @ 1:48, the whole affair will be so unprecedented that it will be ridiculous.

I'd agree with your statement here. Absolutely. Particularly as you are unable to row past 5k at 1:48 pace. That's what will make your FM @1:48 so special....

Agreed, this event will be very special. However, I have a question about your coach. How great is a coach that has been saying his prize pupil is less than a month from a FM in 1:48... For several years??? At what point does a great coach become a complete idiot after hundreds of predictions that never happen?

[mikvan52]

aharmer:

Here's how the coach should be rated:

He is clearly a genius.
Why?
'cuz his sole athlete only takes good strokes at 12.5 - 13.0 spi. You do realize that this is the key to breaking a longstanding WR by 26 seconds (real record (6:42) vs virtual ranger (6:16)in the 60-64 lwts)!

This 26 seconds can also be seen as
345 WATTS (BRIAN BAILEY WR)
VS
421 WATTS (RANGER {virtual 6:16})

IOW: 76 more watts per stroke
or
76/345 = 22 % stronger.... all from, yes, only taking good strokes

hats off to ranger!
truly unprecedented!!
And he's got a dead lock on this 6:16.... (!).... Fabulous stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised if they make an inspirational full-length Hollywood movie about the man..

[Rockin Roland]

10k at 1.57.98. OTE

Given your fitness, which has been maximal now for years and years, the _speed_ of your training is irrelevant.

What is significant is the quality of your rowing/stroking, your technique, your effectiveness and efficiency while rowing.

Given your excellent fitness, that's what will make you fast(-er, -est) in a 2K.

ranger

The only technique required for a good result on a static erg is to get all your weight behind the handle and pull like crazy. You proved that when you first broke the WR.

Ever since you started thinking about your rowing stroke and messing around with it your performance dropped. Keep the pretty rowing for the boat because it won't make any difference to your results on the erg.

[ranger]

At what point does a great coach become a complete idiot after hundreds of predictions that never happen?

If it happens, it happens.

The point is to be purposeful and productive, not predictable.

At what point do training plans become useless, if what they suggest just makes everyone (needlessly!) bad, and then only worse and worse?

Training is an opportunity to get better.

Training plans that make you bad, and then only worse and worse, are not only ineffective.

They are liabilities, mistakes, shams.

If I now pull a FM @ 1:48, given what I could pull for a FM ten years ago, I will beat predictions by 10 seconds per 500m.


That is, relative to all of the other standard training plans, the training that I have followed over the last ten years will have produced an additional improvement in my FM score of a steady one second per 500m per year, year after year, over an entire decade.

That's pretty impressive stuff, not "idiotic" at all.

If you think everything that is unpredictable is idiotic, then you have no respect for observation, trial and error, hypothesis testing, experiment, incremental progress, discovery, insight, accident, etc., which, taken together, are at the basis of all productive thinking and doing, including all athletic achievement, artistic innovation, humanistic inquiry, and scientific exploration.

Give or take a bit, historically, ten seconds per 500m is the difference between a good 60s rower and an elite Open rower.

That is, if I pull a FM @ 1:48 (or better), the performance will bridge the entire gap that, historically, has been attributed to decline with age from 20 years old to 60 years old.

A FM @ 1:48/2:32 is only two minutes, 1.5 seconds per 500m, off of the Open lwt FM WR of 2:30.

Nice!

We'll see, but I think I might also have a chance of shaving off those remaining 2 minutes.

At 23 spm, I am often pulling 1:47, or even 1:46; and my plan is to row my FM trial right at 23 spm, with "Steamroller" playing, over and over, in the background, just as i am doing now in my training.

When I row to "Steamroller," I just pull on the downbeats, which come along at 23 spm, and the music keeps me on my target rate--exactly, on every stroke.

I'll need 3500 strokes for the FM as a whole.

1:48 @ 23 spm is an elegant 12 MPS at an impressive 12 SPI.

ranger

[ranger]

The only technique required for a good result on a static erg is to get all your weight behind the handle and pull like crazy

Naw.

The most effective and efficient rowing, even OTErg, is done with a balanced use of all of the levers, precisely timed and sequenced, with good footwork and angles of leverage, at low drag and full slide, which produces an impressive acceleration of the handle from catch to finish.

The rowing stroke is not at all like heaving a weight or hauling an anchor.

It is like a whiplash.

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSnap!

ranger

[ranger]

With my short little lightweight legs, at 120 df. and 12 SPI, my drive time is only a bit over .5 seconds.

So, at 23 spm, I am in a _huge_ 4-to-1 ratiio.

In my FM trial, I will only be working 1/5 of the time.

.5 seconds for the drive.

2 seconds for the recovery.

Of the 152 minutes it will take me to row to FM, I will only be working for 30min.

Let the boat run!

Let the wheel spin!

ranger

[Rocket Roy]

So what date have you pencilled in for the FM?

[macroth]

Did I read correctly that Professor Rich Cureton, at age 52, had the same V02 max as Lance Armstrong at his peak? UNPRECEDENTED! Why have you been hiding this for so long, ranger? If only you had put your amazing aerobic capacities to good use when you were younger, you might have made a world-class marathon runner, or speed skater, or canoeist or something. Such wasted talent, it makes me want to cry.

Good thing a FM at 1:48 is just around the corner. The world will finally witness your powers!

[jamesg]

Ranger plans to do some work that is equivalent to lifting 60kg off the ground, to chest height, 23 times a minute for 2½ hours. OK, on the erg we don't lift our own weight, so 3500 lifts with a smaller weight (40?) might suffice. Anyway I'm not lifting that weight even once. It does give us, if it were needed, a slight idea of what a WR Marathon actually involves. All power to his elbow, he'll need it, and an ambulance standing by.

[ranger]

Ranger plans to do some work that is equivalent to lifting 60kg off the ground, to chest height, 23 times a minute for 2½ hours. OK, on the erg we don't lift our own weight, so 3500 lifts with a smaller weight (40?) might suffice. Anyway I'm not lifting that weight even once. It does give us, if it were needed, a slight idea of what a WR Marathon actually involves. All power to his elbow, he'll need it, and an ambulance standing by.

At 12 SPI, I get 125 kg.F of peak force on each stroke.

I'm not sure what that is comparable to lifting.

ranger

[ranger]

Here's how the coach should be rated:

He is clearly a genius.
Why?
'cuz his sole athlete only takes good strokes at 12.5 - 13.0 spi. You do realize that this is the key to breaking a longstanding WR by 26 seconds (real record (6:42) vs virtual ranger (6:16)in the 60-64 lwts)!

Naw.

But, sure, that has been the _result_ of my training--to row well (13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

Actually, over the last eight years, I just did all sorts of things to discover, and then correct, what I was doing wrong in terms of technique.

First, I rowed for a half year at _very_ low drag (110 df.), strapless, and 20 spm, about 20K a day. This taught me to lead with my legs. In this training, I only pulled about 10 SPI, though, not 12.5-13 SPI. After doing this, I had two more WR rows and shaved two seconds off of my 50s lwt 2K WR.

Second, I raised the drag to max and pulled at low rates and _very_ high stroking powers (13-16 SPI) over short intervals (RWBs), trying to retain what I had learned rowing strapless at low drag. This taught me quickness, and the full use of all of my levers. I did this for several years, about 20K a day. In this period, I did rate restricted trials over short distances (500m, 1K, 2K) at low rates. I also pulled a sub-6:30 2K at 12 SPI, without even preparing for it. No 55s rower my size had ever rowed that fast for 2K.

Then I slowly raised the rate to 30 spm while lowering the stroking power to 11 SPI. I did this for about a year or so. This taught me a thing or two about the importance of fast recoveries. I also did this about 20K a day. During this period, I pulled a lwt 6:41 for 2K, a couple of times, without even preparing for it. No lwt, 58 and 59 years old, had ever rowed that fast for 2K.

Then I lowered the drag, lengthened the slide, and learned how to relax my core and upper body at the catch (and how to keep my upper body relaxed when I tensed my core during the back swing). I tried this out at all rates, including high rates, for a half year or so. I also did this about 20K a day.

Then I learned how to keep better contact at the footplate on finishes, and how to use my back as a brace rather than a lever on both catches and finishes in order to maximize the _countermotion_ among my levers. These have been recent discoveries, but I have now been doing them for several months.

Sure, at the end of this process of technical improvement, I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

So far this morning: 15K of "Steamrollering" OTErg.

Yep.

Toward the end of the session, I was pulling 1:45 @ 23 spm (13 SPI) with just my natural motion.

Rowing well!

Back out OTW as soon as the sun comes up.

ranger

P.S. I hear that you prefer 1:58 @ 23 spm (9 SPI) rather than 1:45 @ 23 spm (13 SPI). I am not sure what good that does you, but to each his own, I guess. Your coach must have _some_ reason for having you row so poorly, but it is hard to see what that reason might be.

[macroth]

You really can't usefully compare erging to lifting a weight from the ground to chest level. The effort required to spin a flywheel while pulling a chain horizontally is simply no match for the effects of gravity. Try doing a full squat with no weight every 3 seconds for 10 minutes, and compare to a 2k, 2:30/500m@20spm. Once you add any sort of weight into the mix, your arms will tire out much more quickly than on the erg as well.

But there's no arguing against the fact that a 1:48 pace FM is amazing stuff. And it's coming very soon! Goodie goodie gumdrops!

[Byron Drachman]

--snip-- At what point does a great coach become a complete idiot after hundreds of predictions that never happen?

--snip--If you think everything that is unpredictable is idiotic, then you have no respect for observation, trial and error, hypothesis testing, experiment, incremental progress, discovery, insight, accident, etc., which, taken together, are at the basis of all productive thinking and doing, including all athletic achievement, artistic innovation, humanistic inquiry, and scientific exploration. --snip--

Well said. That is so to the point. That should put the entire matter to rest.

[hjs]

So what date have you pencilled in for the FM?

Soon ! comming up any moment, like it is for yearsssssssssssssss now

[ranger]

So what date have you pencilled in for the FM?

Soon ! comming up any moment, like it is for yearsssssssssssssss now

When it happens, it happens.

Training isn't mechanical and predictable, especially _good_ training.

Your body needs to learn what you are teaching it.

How long does that take?

Well, uh, um, ...

Who knows?

As long as it takes.

In training, you can control what you choose to teach your body to do and what you do in order to try to get your body to learn those things.

I don't think you can control the speed of the learning process, though, or even guarantee that the learning you would like to see happen will happen at all.

You just work hard, hope for the best, and wait for good things to happen.

This open-ended, but attentive, waiting takes quite a bit of faith, dedication, grit, and patience.

ranger