Dynamic Rower for sale - has anyone tried it?

[johnlvs2run]

Rowing shells have tracks that are tilted to the stern, so the C2 indoor rowing devices all have tracks that are tilted to the back - or to the front of the user if you prefer that perspective.

Isn't the reason for the sloped slide in rowing boats, in order to counteract the slope of the boat as it moves
alternatively towards and away from you. Taking into account this movement of the boat, the movement of the seat
on the slide turns out to be level, not tilted.

Current production Dynamic uses a single straight rail for the seat and foot stretchers. A light bungee provides the seat centering force, with adjustable front feet for changing the level of the machine. If you're tending towards the front of the seat travel you raise the front and if your tending toward the back you should lower the front. C2JonW

Thanks for that update.

[Bob S.]

Isn't the reason for the sloped slide in rowing boats, in order to counteract the slope of the boat as it moves
alternatively towards and away from you. Taking into account this movement of the boat, the movement of the seat
on the slide turns out to be level, not tilted.

No

[johnlvs2run]

Bob,

I visited a friend in Maui a few years ago, who loved it there, but I didn't like it at all.
There was one main road, regardless the part of the island, and regardless where I went
it felt like the ground was tilted to the ocean. I was happy to leave and to get back to home.

When I left, I took a big bag full of cucumbers with me to the airport. A officially dressed woman
behind a counter took the bag and said I wouldn't be allowed to take them on the plane. This was
in the early 1990's. This did not make any sense to me, and I wanted the cucumbers back, after all
they were mine, and no one had any reason to take them from me.

My friend, a few weeks ago, has moved back to the states. Apparently everything being tilted, such
as they are on the island, has caused some havoc with his knees.

However, I conclude from your responses that some people like things to be tilted, and others
like them to be on the level.

[Bob S.]

Bob,

I visited a friend in Maui a few years ago, who loved it there, but I didn't like it at all.
There was one main road, regardless the part of the island, and regardless where I went
it felt like the ground was tilted to the ocean.

The same could be said for the coastal plain area of Orange County where I lived for many years.

When I left, I took a big bag full of cucumbers with me to the airport. A officially dressed woman
behind a counter took the bag and said I wouldn't be allowed to take them on the plane. This was
in the early 1990's. This did not make any sense to me, and I wanted the cucumbers back, after all
they were mine, and no one had any reason to take them from me.

I just picked the first cucumber of the season from my garden a couple of days ago and I guess that one could say that it is tilted - well at least it has a curve to it.

My friend, a few weeks ago, has moved back to the states. Apparently everything being tilted, such
as they are on the island, has caused some havoc with his knees.

I had the same problem walking in Europe when occasionally I had to use roads instead of trails. Since the roads used for vehicles are crowned to ensure that water drains off to the side, the shoulders are almost always tilted to the side. Of course this is a lateral tilt. Tilts to the front and back are just hill walking and that's all a part of the game.

However, I conclude from your responses that some people like things to be tilted, and others
like them to be on the level.

The tilt of the runners in a rowing shell is fore and aft - not to the side, so there is no twist to the spine. The stretchers have no lateral tilt, so there is no problem for the knees. The bone of contention here is the tilt of the runners to the stern. For my part, I would hate to try to get into a boat with level runners. I would never know where the hell the seat was - which can make it very awkward, indeed. Worse yet would be to have the runners tilted down to the bow end. In that case the damn seat would be too far behind me and that would make it a lot more difficult. It is hard enough getting into a lightweight tippy rowing shell as it is. It has been a long time since I have done it and I am not sure that I would still be able to do it without a ducking. I certainly wouldn't want to try it when the seat is not as close to the stretcher as possible.

Your original question was' "Isn't the reason for the sloped slide in rowing boats, in order to counteract the slope of the boat as it moves alternatively towards and away from you."

My succinct answer was no. In more detail, the slope of the boat does not change that much. Also I don't understand what the slope of the runners would have to do with that, since it is sloped in only one direction and would not take care of the alternating slope of the boat. I suppose that one could engineer a set of runners that change slope, but it would be a pointless exercise in futility - sort of like this argument.

Bob S.

[johnlvs2run]

I emailed Oartec and they told me there is no simple way to hook a pm 3 or 4 up to the Slider. They specifically mentioned what Roland witnessed and they told me it was just a quick set up to test the calibration. In order to use a Pm3or4 you would have to manually install a model c C2 sensor by drilling through side plate and flywheel housing and mounting the model C sensor so it can read the magnets. No way am I going to do that.

I think that is relatively easy to do.

Others have put 2 monitors on a C2 machine the same way.

[Citroen]

I emailed Oartec and they told me there is no simple way to hook a pm 3 or 4 up to the Slider. They specifically mentioned what Roland witnessed and they told me it was just a quick set up to test the calibration. In order to use a Pm3or4 you would have to manually install a model c C2 sensor by drilling through side plate and flywheel housing and mounting the model C sensor so it can read the magnets. No way am I going to do that.

I think that is relatively easy to do.

Others have put 2 monitors on a C2 machine the same way.

Pay attention John.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 44#p157644

JonW from C2 said it's unlikely to give an accurate reading due to the flywheel weight/moment of inertia.

[johnlvs2run]

I emailed Oartec and they told me there is no simple way to hook a pm 3 or 4 up to the Slider. They specifically mentioned what Roland witnessed and they told me it was just a quick set up to test the calibration. In order to use a Pm3or4 you would have to manually install a model c C2 sensor by drilling through side plate and flywheel housing and mounting the model C sensor so it can read the magnets. No way am I going to do that.

I think that is relatively easy to do.

Others have put 2 monitors on a C2 machine the same way.

Pay attention John.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 44#p157644

JonW from C2 said it's unlikely to give an accurate reading due to the flywheel weight/moment of inertia.

Ironic, since I posted about attaching the monitor not comparing them.

In fact I have posted elsewhere that I hope the Oartec machine and monitor are NOT like C2's, and instead are comparable to times from sculling on the water. Olympic sculling records are identical regardless of weight class.

[Ultramega OK]

How can anything done on the erg really be comprable to what is done on the water? There are too many variables including bladework, current, wind that come into play otw, not to mention boat variables.

[Carl Watts]

How can anything done on the erg really be comprable to what is done on the water? There are too many variables including bladework, current, wind that come into play otw, not to mention boat variables.

True it cannot, however what is so great about the C2 Erg is it is directly comparable to anyone elses performance on the Erg, without having to worry about any where near as many variables as OTW.

Regardless of what you think of the Erg it builds great base fitness that is going to transfer to OTW better than any other sport. Love the Erg or hate it, at the top level the best have been the fastest on both the Erg and OTW. Obviously the more cross training the better and swimming for one, appears to be very benifical in improving your Erg performance.

[johnlvs2run]

Performances are comparable on the water regardless of weight - which is not the case on the c2 ergs, and so is the opposite of the case on the water. Personally and I think this is the case for most people, I prefer performances to be based on athleticism not weight. Thus an ergometer based on athletism is best, not the weight of the person.

For me, as I'm not getting any younger, I want an erg that is based on my fitness and health, not on weight, as the latter is a false reading and I consider it to be dangerous. Consider, a person can gain 50 or 100 pounds and get a faster c2 score, which is certainly terrible for that person, not good at all.

Equalizing performances on the erg, as they are on the water would be a great advantage for everyone. As the case is now, people think they are good or have good "technique" when they are simply too heavy. The sad thing is that this attitude is fostered by C2. For example on their 36 spm video which I finally got to see, they have printed on it that "rhythm comes from the power of the drive", translation by thrusting your weight, which is totally ridiculous.

Take a look at any of the great lightweights, Stephansen, Luini, Ebbesen, and they do NOT thrust their weight on the erg. Rather their rhythm comes from speed, finesse, and rhythm! Yes, rhythm comes from rhythm, not weight. When I saw that video I was thinking to myself that C2 still doesn't get it. How can they make an erg that is equalized by weight, when they think that weight is the answer.

In fact, again on the 36 spm video, the guy first locks his legs and holds them there, then contorts his body to a layback, bending his torso instead of rotating at the hips, and c2 has printed on the video, Excellent Form. Sorry but I have to laugh at that. Take a look at Henrik Stephensen's form and it is entirely different from the c2 instruction video. I imagine what c2 would say, this is terrible form.

[NavigationHazard]

For at least the second time: performances on the water are NOT somehow "equalized by weight." A good HW boat beats an equally good LW boat. Period. In fact the LW category exists precisely because it gives rowers from countries that don't produce 6' 4" 215lb specimens a chance at medals they otherwise would never compete for. Your comparison of Olympic best times is (typically) specious as neither the competitive nor the ambient conditions are equal from Games to Games. Or even from heat to heat or final to final in any given Games.

Every single one of your favorite Danish LW scullers including Stephensen would finish boat lengths behind the Syneks or Campbells of the world were they to race at the same time over the same course. That's why they compete in a weight-restricted category.

[hjs]

Performances are comparable on the water regardless of weight - which is not the case on the c2 ergs, and so is the opposite of the case on the water. Personally and I think this is the case for most people, I prefer performances to be based on athleticism not weight. Thus an ergometer based on athletism is best, not the weight of the person.

For me, as I'm not getting any younger, I want an erg that is based on my fitness and health, not on weight, as the latter is a false reading and I consider it to be dangerous. Consider, a person can gain 50 or 100 pounds and get a faster c2 score, which is certainly terrible for that person, not good at all.

Equalizing performances on the erg, as they are on the water would be a great advantage for everyone. As the case is now, people think they are good or have good "technique" when they are simply too heavy. The sad thing is that this attitude is fostered by C2. For example on their 36 spm video which I finally got to see, they have printed on it that "rhythm comes from the power of the drive", translation by thrusting your weight, which is totally ridiculous.

Take a look at any of the great lightweights, Stephansen, Luini, Ebbesen, and they do NOT thrust their weight on the erg. Rather their rhythm comes from speed, finesse, and rhythm! Yes, rhythm comes from rhythm, not weight. When I saw that video I was thinking to myself that C2 still doesn't get it. How can they make an erg that is equalized by weight, when they think that weight is the answer.

In fact, again on the 36 spm video, the guy first locks his legs and holds them there, then contorts his body to a layback, bending his torso instead of rotating at the hips, and c2 has printed on the video, Excellent Form. Sorry but I have to laugh at that. Take a look at Henrik Stephensen's form and it is entirely different from the c2 instruction video. I imagine what c2 would say, this is terrible form.

If weight does not matter OTW why are there light and heavyweights classes ? Everybody could compete and make the medals more worthwhile.
If speed does not matter what could be the reason

[johnlvs2run]

The Olympic sculling records shown below are identical regardless of weight class.

Women Double Scull
lightweight ... Sally Newmarch, Amber Halliday, Australia 6:49.90
open ... Kerstin Koeppen, Kathrin Boron, Germany 6:49.00 ... identical

Men Double Scull
lightweight ... Zac Purchase, Mark Hunter, Great Britain 6:10.99
open ... Rossano Galtarossa, Alessio Sartori, Italy 6:11.49 ... identical (lightweight faster)

Men Coxless Four
lightweight ... Ebert, Joergensen, Andersen, Ebbesen, Denmark 5:47.76
open ... Urban, Thormann, Stuer, Heidicker, Germany 5:48.52 ... identical (lightweight faster)

[NavigationHazard]

What part of 'they are from different races and/or different Olympiads and therefore not directly comparable' do you fail to grasp?

[Bob S.]

Or even from heat to heat or final to final in any given Games.

Even from lane to lane. A well chosen course would not have variability in the current, but the combination of wind and differential shielding from the wind can produce advantages for some lanes over others. I'm sure that a venue that has equalized wind protection could be built, but no one is going to spend that kind of money for a sport that has such minimal spectator interest.

An unfortunate circumstance, but that is the nature of rowing.

Bob S.

ed.: The San Diego Crew Classic is a classic case of lane variability as a result of wind. Of course that venue would not be chosen for the Olympics. I just brought it up as an extreme example.