Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

As usual you didn't answer my question

Perhaps.

Then again, nay-sayers don't deserve to be responded to, now or ever.

So if you get an answer to a question, now or ever, it is above and beyond the call.

Nay-sayers are just sad sacks, envious of others, hating themselves.

I can't help it if you are ashamed of yourself.

Perhaps you can get help.

Have you tried a shrink?

ranger

[JimmyL]

Today, I was doing some 2:01 @ 23 spm in my Fluid.

Wow.

Even at 15 seconds over erg times, about the best anyone can do, that's the equivalent of 1:46 @ 23 spm OTErg, a neat little 12.6 SPI.

ranger

You can't compare OTW to erg, way too many variables on the water to make it accurate.

How long did you keep the 2:01 up for?
That's a really good pace at that rate.

[PaulH]

Notice the difference.

Two years ago, I was posting video of 2:10 @ 26 spm.

Last year, I was going to post some video of 2:05 @ 26 spm.

Now, I am ready to post some video of 2:00 @ 26 spm.

Nice learning curve.

ranger

Two curves really - you've learned to increase the performance you claim, while decreasing the evidence for it. Keep that improvement up and you'll be able to row a 1:55 @ 26 spm while people sitting on the lakeside in front of you won't even be able to see!

[mikvan52]

The tedium of this thread remains unchanged.
No point in posting anything. There are rough 10 posts that are rephrased and posted over and over again...

ranger does do anything these days ~ he just says he'll do or should do... boring!

[ranger]

Yea.

Moment time is for fools and knaves.

Any ambitious project takes a while.

Consider Darren Clarke.

British Open Champion.

It took twenty years.

ranger

[ranger]

The tedium of this thread remains unchanged...boring!

Sure.

All good training is boring--for spectators.

The body changes slowly, and even in changing, loves repetition--more of the same, more of the same.

The great satisfactions that we all get from daily training are physcial, personal, and aesthetic, not social.

Those who expect/want training to be dramatic, great theatre, don't understand the beast.

ranger

[snowleopard]

Consider Darren Clarke.

British Open Champion.

It took twenty years.

Oh yeah, golf and rowing have a huge amount in common twat

[ranger]

There are rough 10 posts that are rephrased and posted over and over again

Sure.

20K OTErg, just before dawn; 10K OTW, just after dawn.

I hope this will change soon, though, to 20K OTErg, just before dawn, 20K OTW, just after dawn.

That will be exciting!



ranger

[ranger]

Today, I was doing some 2:01 @ 23 spm in my Fluid.

Wow.

Even at 15 seconds over erg times, about the best anyone can do, that's the equivalent of 1:46 @ 23 spm OTErg, a neat little 12.6 SPI.

ranger

You can't compare OTW to erg, way too many variables on the water to make it accurate.

How long did you keep the 2:01 up for?
That's a really good pace at that rate.

So far, I have only gotten to things like 2:01 @ 23 spm briefly.

But I take this as a good sign that I am starting to get it right, at least, occasionally.

Rowing is repetitive.

It's just one stroke after another.

So, especially at low rates, if you can get it right a few times, you can get it right all of the time.

You just need to keep working at hitting those sweet spots until they are the norm rather than the exception.

BTW, what did you rate when you pulled your OTW 2K pb at 2:00 pace?

ranger

[ranger]

you've learned to increase the performance you claim, while decreasing the evidence for it

Evidence?

The evidence for my training is right in front of me--on every stroke, in every piece, in every session.

The evidence that you see, or that you judge to be good or bad, has nothing to do with my training.

For me, at least, the training advocated here is bad advice.

For older rowers, after _very_ short shrift, you can't improve at all unless what people like you want to see as evidence of good training is ignored entirely.

If you want to improve, why follow the advice of those like you who are just getting worse and worse?

ranger

[ranger]

You can't compare OTW to erg, way too many variables on the water to make it accurate.

Accuracy has nothing to do with it.

For two rowers of the same weight, I would think it is a pretty good bet that the rower who can do the Head of the Charles at 1:50 pace is quite a bit better OTErg over 2K than the rower who can only do the Head of the Charles at 2:20 pace.

The decline with age of erg scores is pretty much exactly parallel to the decline with age of OTW scores.

In a 1x in good conditions, a lean competent OTW rower does something like 15 seconds 500m slower than erg scores.

ranger

[PaulH]

you've learned to increase the performance you claim, while decreasing the evidence for it

Evidence?

The evidence for my training is right in front of me--on every stroke, in every piece, in every session.

Then share it. We've already established that there's basically no point to this thread, but this could be it. Show us what you've done, whatever it is, and in whatever form.

[ranger]

you've learned to increase the performance you claim, while decreasing the evidence for it

I already have--continuously.

I have been posting videos of my improved technique for years now.

Back in 2003, I pulled 10 SPI with my normal rowing motion.

Now, I pull 13 SPI.

I have increased my natural stroking power by 30%.

I'll post some videos of my current technique, both OTW and OTErg, over the next week or so.

Better catches and finishes.

I have always used my back/core to great advantage as a lever.

Now, I have also learned how to use my back/core as a _brace_ (for my legs) at the catch and as a _brace_ (for my arms) at the finish.

Getting the _countermotion_ of legs and arms _against_ the back/core at catches and finishes is a big part of the easy power in a good rowing stroke.

It seems obvious that, historically, all 60s veterans have missed this countermotion entirely.

Even as a little lightweight, you _can't_ get it right and pull 9 SPI when you are rowing hard. Impossible!

As a big heavyweight, you _can't_ get it right and pull 12 SPI when you are rowing hard. Impossible!

For whatever reason, historically, 60s veterans have just pulled with all of their levers at once, moving slowly from catch to finish, rocking at the footplate from their toes to their heels, finishing, as they began, pulling with all their levers at once.

Technically, that's a disaster.

All of the proper sequencing, timing, and countermotion of the multiple levers in the rowing stroke is dissolved.

The rowing stroke becomes like a slowly opening flower rather than, as it should be, like a whiplash.

You can't have properly quick legs at the catch or properly quick arms at the finish without proper footwork and an effective use of the back as a brace rather than as a lever.

At the catch and then in the middle of the drive, you need to push your legs through, first off the balls of your feet with your quads and then off your heels with your hams/glutes against a _braced_ back.

At the finish, you need to pull your arms through, back up on the balls of your feet, toes pointed, driving forward to the footplate with your calves, against a _braced_ back.

ranger

[JimmyL]

Today, I was doing some 2:01 @ 23 spm in my Fluid.

Wow.

Even at 15 seconds over erg times, about the best anyone can do, that's the equivalent of 1:46 @ 23 spm OTErg, a neat little 12.6 SPI.

ranger

You can't compare OTW to erg, way too many variables on the water to make it accurate.

How long did you keep the 2:01 up for?
That's a really good pace at that rate.

So far, I have only gotten to things like 2:01 @ 23 spm briefly.

But I take this as a good sign that I am starting to get it right, at least, occasionally.

Rowing is repetitive.

It's just one stroke after another.

So, especially at low rates, if you can get it right a few times, you can get it right all of the time.

You just need to keep working at hitting those sweet spots until they are the norm rather than the exception.

BTW, what did you rate when you pulled your OTW 2K pb at 2:00 pace?

ranger

It was in a race so pretty high, I'd say around 30-34 spm.

It's all about letting the boat run at the slower paces, you still go hard and fast through the water but go nice a slow up the slide while the boat is running along

and the 15 sec per 500m thing seems pretty close actually, mine is 13.7 sec so not far off it.

[ranger]

It was in a race so pretty high, I'd say around 30-34 spm.

It's all about letting the boat run at the slower paces, you still go hard and fast through the water but go nice a slow up the slide while the boat is running along

and the 15 sec per 500m thing seems pretty close actually, mine is 13.7 sec so not far off it.

Keep up the good work.

Sounds as though you are doing great.

Undoubtedly, your erg times and OTW times will come down together, as you get older, tougher, stronger, more skilled, more highly trained, and more experienced.

ranger