Ranger's training thread

[ben990]

According to _Rowing Faster_ the ideal elite rower is ...

ranger

According to _Rowing Faster_ you can't break 7:00 for a 2K.

According to _Rowing Faster_ you are slowing down every year.

According to _Rowing Faster_ you are a lying cretin.

Delighted with that.

OK, carry on with the trolling.

[ranger]

According to _Rowing Faster_ the ideal elite rower is ...

ranger

According to _Rowing Faster_ you can't break 7:00 for a 2K.

According to _Rowing Faster_ you are slowing down every year.

According to _Rowing Faster_ you are a lying cretin.

Delighted with that.

OK, carry on with the trolling.

Sorry, but it's clear:

The best rowers are trolls only to the stunned assholes who can't row a lick.

Makes sense, but sadly so.

ranger

[ben990]

Keep it up. You are doing it right...

[PaulH]

In the 1970s, the East Germans revolutionized training for rowing by doing a lot of steady state rowing at 18 spm in order to train for the 2K, which is quite a bit more intense, being done at over twice that rate.

Sure, but if had been done OTErg by the big heavyweights, I bet all of that rowing at 18 spm was done at something like 1:45/17 SPI.

Not easy at all.

Rowing well!

ranger

Though the applicability of this to your training is marginal at best, unless you're also taking carefully measured doses of steroids and other drugs. I don't count alcohol as a drug in this context, if that helps you respond.

[joe80]

Very much enjoying the daily photograph from Door County. It appears to be an ideal setting for rowing with breathtaking scenery that responds to the moods of the weather.

It's easy to see why you spend your Summers there.

Regards,

Joe

[ranger]

the applicability of this to your training is marginal at best

True.

In my steady state work, I am rating 25 spm in order to do the 1:45.

Different matter.

Not 17 SPI, only 12 SPI.

HR, I imagine, is about the same: 155 bpm.

The higher rate might just be a lightweight preference.

Little legs.

I am only 5'11", 165 lbs.

The average elite heavyweight rower is 6'5", 210 lbs.

ranger

[ranger]

This FM training that I am doing is what Fritsch in _Rowing Faster_ (p. 72) calls Level V training.

75% HRR

This training is transitional.

It mediates between work at aerobic threshold rowing (65% HRR), Level VI training, and anaerobic threshold (85% HRR), Level IV, training.

For me, this is work at a midpoint between 22 spm (aerobic threshold/top-end UT2) and 29 spm (anaerobic threshold/top-end UT1).

25 spm

Low UT1

For me, 155 bpm.

The other distance trials (HM, 60min, 10K, 30min, 6K, 5K) are done right at the anaerobic threshold, with various doses of work pushing into AT.

ranger

[bellboy]

the applicability of this to your training is marginal at best

True.

In my steady state work, I am rating 25 spm in order to do the 1:45.

Different matter.

Not 17 SPI, only 12 SPI.

HR, I imagine, is about the same: 155 bpm.

The higher rate might just be a lightweight preference.

Little legs.

I am only 5'11", 165 lbs.

The average elite heavyweight rower is 6'5", 210 lbs.

ranger

You dont just have little legs. You have legs like Q tips. Most of your weight seems to be ego

[ranger]

Most of your weight seems to be ego

Sure.

If you don't have a lot of self-assurance, you'll never be any sort of athlete.

Whatever they might appear to be, there are no meek, self-effacing athletes of any note or sigificant lvel of accomplishment.

Christianity has got it so wrong it's amazing.

No, the meek will not inherit the earth.

They'll just try to make you _believe_ that they will.

But if you don't believe, it doesn't happen.

And why believe nonsense?

ranger

[leadville]

I thought I would post something useful while we are on pins and needles awaiting the legendary FM@1:48 by our intrepid hero. Since he now has his OTW stroke completely fixed, I was going to ask his expert opinion on the following weighty matter: Many coaches want the blades completely squared before they enter the water at the catch. You are supposed to listen to the oarlock click when the blade is squared and have some time between that and when you hear the blade enter the water. However, some scullers get partially squared and let the water finish the squaring for them. That is fairly close to what is referred to as rowing in. That method requires a light touch at the catch and finesse. Otherwise you are risking catching a crab. However, I will switch the topic to nutrition for a moment.

Byron - With all due respect to Frank, I'd suggest 'rowing the blade in' is an inherently all-but-impossible technical adaptation.

If the blade is not squared when it enters the water, you will be missing a key part of the drive. If the water squares the blade, than boat-moving potential is reduced by the six inches or so of travel it takes for the blade to be squared.

I'd also note that the catch timing involves more than the arm unweighting the oar; it requires an instantaneous reversal in the legs timed such that it occurs just as the blade enters the water. Thus rowing the blade in would require a somewhat reduced effort at the initial drive as well as likely result in the blade sinking deeper than it should at the catch as the drive/blade angle combines to drive the blade deep.

Re rangerboy's claim to not getting any blisters on his hands anymore; then clearly he isn't pulling hard, or even medium, or his hands are entirely callused (which leads to blisters forming under the callus layers), or he's lying.

My money's on the latter.

[Byron Drachman]

Byron - With all due respect to Frank, I'd suggest 'rowing the blade in' is an inherently all-but-impossible technical adaptation.

Hi Leadville,
That is very interesting. I was discussing that concept with one of our older coaches last year and he said pretty much the same thing. He said in all his years of coaching he only saw one person using the sculler's catch (Frank's terminology) well and that it was quite elegant.
Byron

[pmacaula]

If you don't have a lot of self-assurance, you'll never be any sort of athlete...Whatever they might appear to be, there are no meek, self-effacing athletes of any note or significant level of accomplishment...

Rich - There may be a bit of a semantic gap here. I agree that one needs a healthy ego to compete and win, but it is not necessarily true that others can spot it outside of training or competition.
Pretty much every morning on the river, I pass (she is going the other way) a woman who won an Oly gold in rowing. I have never heard her even mention future or past performance, let alone the fact that she is an Olympic Champion. She is the quietest person in her masters crew (they won HOCR in 2009, 2nd in 2010), rows in whatever seat without complaint, but she does not mess around when making a boat move.
The guy who won the 50+ 1x at HOCR last fall is also pretty quiet. Ask Mike VB about him. No warning he would vaporize the course and every other highly touted 50+ sculler on it. Only by some diligent searching would you find out that he was a finalist in 2x in the '84 Olympics.
In short, there are many examples of top end athletes who are outwardly mild and self-effacing. These people have a will of iron and a level of competitive fire that only those training with/competing against them can believe it is the same person who seems so mild and unassuming any other time.
One does not see these people posting on internet forums, but their results are on the web.

Cheers. Patrick.

[Byron Drachman]

In short, there are many examples of top end athletes who are outwardly mild and self-effacing.
Cheers. Patrick.

Hi Patrick,

That reminds me of the time my older brother and I went roller-blading and roller-skating on forest preserve paths. Without saying much about it we started racing each other. When we got back the only way we could continue the competition was by talking and bragging. My brother then turned to his wife and said "You should have brought your skates." He then said to his wife, "You won a gold, didn't you?" His wife said, "Well, actually it was two gold medals." So my sister-in-law had won two Olympic gold medals and I didn't know it. I was looking for a hole to crawl into after my brother had snookered me into bragging about my skating prowess.

Byron

[ausrwr]

Sorry, but it's clear:

The best rowers are trolls only to the stunned assholes who can't row a lick.

Makes sense, but sadly so.

ranger

So, you think you're one of the "best rowers"? You're not even a good erger any more.

You must be kidding. "Best" compared to what? You're too scared to go and race anyone, or justify why you are any good, so it's pretty hard to justify that you're a good rower at all.

I can tell you that your rowing is rubbish, and unlikely to get any better, as you're immune to coaching or positive criticism. And I can do it with a little more strength to this argument than you telling us you're good.

I've rowed and won in every boat class at levels from novice to national. I've coached winners up to National champ level. You've...

You've not finished a race.

Argument over, I'd say.

You're a troll, and that's unrelated to how good you think you are.

[ranger]

If you don't have a lot of self-assurance, you'll never be any sort of athlete...Whatever they might appear to be, there are no meek, self-effacing athletes of any note or significant level of accomplishment...

Rich - There may be a bit of a semantic gap here. I agree that one needs a healthy ego to compete and win, but it is not necessarily true that others can spot it outside of training or competition.
Pretty much every morning on the river, I pass (she is going the other way) a woman who won an Oly gold in rowing. I have never heard her even mention future or past performance, let alone the fact that she is an Olympic Champion. She is the quietest person in her masters crew (they won HOCR in 2009, 2nd in 2010), rows in whatever seat without complaint, but she does not mess around when making a boat move.
The guy who won the 50+ 1x at HOCR last fall is also pretty quiet. Ask Mike VB about him. No warning he would vaporize the course and every other highly touted 50+ sculler on it. Only by some diligent searching would you find out that he was a finalist in 2x in the '84 Olympics.
In short, there are many examples of top end athletes who are outwardly mild and self-effacing. These people have a will of iron and a level of competitive fire that only those training with/competing against them can believe it is the same person who seems so mild and unassuming any other time.
One does not see these people posting on internet forums, but their results are on the web.

Cheers. Patrick.

To each his own. I don't see any reason not to be openly expressive/personal rather than put on some false social persona to soothe the egos of others. Many do, of course, and therefore get a round of applause for the dissembling. But in the end, it is just (social) dissembling. As I see it, most of the bad things past, present, and future come from social groups and their rationalizations, obsessions, fears, anxieties, exclusions, narrowness, blindnesses, etc. As I understand it, most of liberal education in the humanities (the study of history, philosophy, literature, art, music, etc.) is to warn the young of the inhumane madness that they will be subjected to socially as adults.

ranger