Ranger's training thread

[PaulH]

At low drag (120 df.) and substantial rates (25+ spm) over long distances (60min, HM, FM), you can _only_ get a high peak force with good catch timing.

There is no other way to do it.

Given that you haven't actually done any of these you have no evidence that there is no other way to do it.

[PaulH]

you can't show a 1:48 FM

I haven't tried yet.

Then again, the 60s lwt FM WR is 2:00 pace, 12 seconds per 500m slower.

So, it is understandable that my doing a 1:48 FM might take a bit of preparation, no?

Absolutely, but you've claimed you're about to do a 1:48 marathon (or better) for what, 6 years now? You're so far past "a bit" of preparation that it won't be long before man landed on the moon in less time than it takes you to not do a 1:48 marathon.

[ranger]

I may join the fray and break the world marathon record. This morning I ran a quarter mile at 4:40/mile pace. I'll simply continue to increase that distance each day until the record is mine. There is no evidence I am not a 2:02 marathoner. It's really a shame I never thought of this training plan in the past, it would have been fun to own all these world records.

I have done 60min @ 1:48, rowing badly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.), not even knowing how to row.

So, sure, if you do 10 miles @ 4:40 pace, say, running up hill, I would give you a good chance of breaking the FM WR on a flat course.

ranger

[ranger]

You're so far past "a bit" of preparation that it won't be long before man landed on the moon in less time than it takes you to not do a 1:48 marathon.

Naw.

You are just encountering your lack of patience.

No one who is impatient ever did anything significant, or understands what it takes to do something significant.

I suspect that it takes _at least_ a decade or so to master any complex sport, especially for someone who takes up the sport when they are 50 years old.

Don't you?

Sports are arts.

It is not at all surprising that it has taken me a long time to learn how to row well.

The surprising thing, certainly, is that I learned to row well at all.

No veteran has ever rowed well, much less a 60s veteran.

In fact, given the present culture that surrounds rowing, which focusses on race preparation and racing, rather than learning to row well, by and large, no veteran even tries.

The goal of all of the rowers I have ever listened to on this forum is to row as fast as you can, right now, not to spend a decade learning to row well.

ranger

[JimR]

I may join the fray and break the world marathon record. This morning I ran a quarter mile at 4:40/mile pace. I'll simply continue to increase that distance each day until the record is mine. There is no evidence I am not a 2:02 marathoner. It's really a shame I never thought of this training plan in the past, it would have been fun to own all these world records.

I have done 60min @ 1:48, rowing badly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.), not even knowing how to row.

So, sure, if you do 10 miles @ 4:40 pace, say, running up hill, I would give you a good chance of breaking the FM WR on a flat course.

ranger

Now that you think you "know how to row" you have arrived at a power that you can't sustain ... because your fitness doesn't allow it (you get tired as it were). Since your fitness is maximal (and always has been according to you) you only have one option for a steady-state FM ... slowing the pace.

So there is your issue ... do you (a) do a FM at a pace slower than 1:48, which proves everyone right ... or do you (b) do the FM at 1:48 pace and stop to catch your breath, which also proves everyone right.

It seems you have chosen option (c) ... don't attempt the 1:48 FM and just talk about doing it day after day fro going on 10 years or so.

JimR

[ranger]

your fitness doesn't allow it

My fitness doesn't have anything to do with it.

My improvement has been technical.

I am now more effective and efficient as a rower, given my fitness.

My fitness has been maximal for a decade, and hasn't declined much at all, a bit perhaps, but not much.

A second per 500m?

That is nothing compared to my technical advance, which has been _massive_.

ranger

[JimR]

In fact, given the present culture that surrounds rowing, which focusses on race preparation and racing, rather than learning to row well, by and large, no veteran even tries.

The goal of all of the rowers I have ever listened to on this forum is to row as fast as you can, right now, not to spend a decade learning to row well.

I believe the goal of others on the forum is to learn how to improve, while enjoying the activity. You are the only one who seems focused on claiming you can do things that you are not capable of.

JimR

[ranger]

I believe the goal of others on the forum is to learn how to improve, while enjoying the activity.JimR

What do you mean by "improve"?

Get faster over 2K, this year, this month, this week?

If so, yes, I think you are right.

And if they row badly, and this is their goal, they will never learn how to row well.

To learn to row well, you need to work on it.

For years and years, perhaps, this work doesn't have anything to do with going fast over 2K.

ranger

[aharmer]

The current female wr holder set the record on her first time on the erg right? The kid who pulled 5:48 at wirc has erged for about a year if I heard correctly. I believe brute strength and a huge aerobic engine is about 95% of erging success. Dicking around with silly technique changes for 10 years accomplishes one thing...it prevents you from competing until your advancing age starts to snowball and your strength and engine slip away to the point where you can't even sniff current wr's let alone destroy them by wide margins.

As usual, you reserve the right to prove me wrong by posting a shred of evidence on this thread.

[JimR]

your fitness doesn't allow it

My fitness doesn't have anything to do with it.

My improvement has been technical.

I am now more effective and efficient as a rower, given my fitness.

My fitness has been maximal for a decade, and hasn't decline much at all, a bit perhaps, but not much.

A second per 500m?

That is nothing compared to my technical advance, which has been _massive_.

ranger

So you get to a level of power you can't handle for a reasonable distance. While you are going on and on about your 1:48 FM others remember your 7:02 2K.

You do have an imagination to be sure. This work of fiction you call your training plan does amuse many.

JimR

[ranger]

The current female wr holder set the record on her first time on the erg right? The kid who pulled 5:48 at wirc has erged for about a year if I heard correctly. I believe brute strength and a huge aerobic engine is about 95% of erging success. Dicking around with silly technique changes for 10 years accomplishes one thing...it prevents you from competing until your advancing age starts to snowball and your strength and engine slip away to the point where you can't even sniff current wr's let alone destroy them by wide margins.

As usual, you reserve the right to prove me wrong by posting a shred of evidence on this thread.

Sure, you're wrong.

My first "evidence" will be a FM @ 1:48.

And that will be all the evidence needed.

It will predict all of my goals, and all of the other predictors of my goals.

BTW, for my age and weight, I have just the brute strength and huge aerobic engine that you mention.

To do your best, you need to row well, too, though, and I certainly didn't when I pulled my lwt 6:28.

No veterans have ever rowed well.

There is also this:

My goal is not to break the 60s lwt WR.

My goal is to break the 50s and 40s lwt WRs, too, even though I am now 60.

Different story.

Sure, I could break the 60s lwt WR rowing badly at max drag, if I were fully prepared, just as I broke the 50s lwt WR, repeatedly, rowing badly at max drag.

But at 60, I can't break the 50s and 40s lwt WRs, too, unless I row well.

ranger

[JimR]

I believe the goal of others on the forum is to learn how to improve, while enjoying the activity.JimR

What do you mean by "improve"?

Get faster over 2K, this year, this month, this week?

If so, yes, I think you are right.

And if they row badly, and this is their goal, they will never learn how to row well.

To learn to row well, you need to work on it.

For years and years, perhaps, this work doesn't have anything to do with going fast over 2K.

ranger

Racing doesn't limit improvement. Year over year gains are possible. Going off in the wilderness and talking like a nut job does seem to limit year over year gains however ... you are proof of that.

JimR

[JimR]

The current female wr holder set the record on her first time on the erg right? The kid who pulled 5:48 at wirc has erged for about a year if I heard correctly. I believe brute strength and a huge aerobic engine is about 95% of erging success. Dicking around with silly technique changes for 10 years accomplishes one thing...it prevents you from competing until your advancing age starts to snowball and your strength and engine slip away to the point where you can't even sniff current wr's let alone destroy them by wide margins.

As usual, you reserve the right to prove me wrong by posting a shred of evidence on this thread.

Sure, you're wrong.

My first "evidence" will be a FM @ 1:48.

And that will be all the evidence needed.

It will predict all of my goals, and all of the other predictors of my goals.

ranger

Yet you have not been able to produce this 1:48 FM for 10 years ... no reason to think it will happen any time soon, if ever.

JimR

[ranger]

Racing doesn't limit improvement. Year over year gains are possible.

There is no evidence for this.

After they have raced, fully prepared, even once, everyone who trains to race just gets worse and worse.

Precipitously.

People like Tore Foss pulled 6:11 when he was 50.

At 60, he now pulls 6:50.

No need.

He rows by pulling the handle between his legs, but can't be arsed to learn to row well.

If Tore rowed well, I think he might have pulled 5:50 at 50, 6:00 at 60.

Especially as you age, you can't get very far muscling the chain with bad technique.

ranger

[ranger]

no reason to think it will happen any time soon

For the impatient?

True.

Then again, when it happens, there it will be, nonetheless.

And so it goes.

Surprising things happen all the time, it's just that cynics are never prepared to deal with them.

Cynicism is the easiest thing in the world.

That's why it's such a roaring bore.

No one with even a shred of self-respect is a cynic.

ranger