Ranger's training thread

[ben990]

The main problem at the moment with my rowing is that I can't break 7:00 for a 2k anymore. I can't believe how _slow_ it is. I also lie a lot and I don't pay my debts. I am also attracted to younger men who wear tight fitting shorts.

I don't seem to be getting this under control, though.

ranger

I fixed what you wrote. You're welcome.

[ranger]

I think this statement is untrue ... absolutly untrue.

Sorry, but there is already substantial evidence for this.

In 2006, I did a sub-6:30 2K at 12 SPI, without preparing for it.

In 2002-2003, I never did any rowing at 12 SPI, much less racing.

So, by 2006, I had brought my effectiveness up to speed.

The advance since then has been in efficiency.

I have lowered the drag, shortened my drive time, raised my ratios, relaxed my shoulders and abs at the catch (and my shoulders in the middle of the drive when I swing my back), improved my length, quickened my recoveries, and improved my posture, slide control, and preparation.

That's what now makes 26 spm feel slow, even though I am pulling 12 SPI while doing it.

I'll now pull 12 SPI @ 26 spm for a FM.

I do it with a middlin' UT1 HR, steady state.

From 2003 to 2006, I developed top-notch effectiveness.

Since 2006, I have added top-notch efficiency.

I already have top-notch aerobic capacity, endurance, full-body strength, flexibility, quickness, etc.

ranger

[ben990]

I think this statement is untrue ... absolutly untrue.

Sorry, but there is already direct evidence for this.

In 2006, I did a sub-6:30 2K at 12 SPI, without even preparing for it.

In 2002-2003, I never did any rowing at 12 SPI, much less racing.

ranger

You forgot to mention the 6:40 you did in 2009, and the 7:02.3 you did in 2011.

See a trend here? Maybe one that indicates you are slowing down? Can we expect a 7:12 in 2014?

[ranger]

You forgot to mention the 6:40 you did in 2009

Technical improvement is not linear and is difficult to assess until everything is in place.

I did my 6:40 2Ks in 2009 and 2010 at max drag.

That was a mistake.

I also did these 6:40 2Ks as a lightweight, but without preparing for them.

That's hard to do.

No one does WR-level 2Ks without preparing for them, especially if you have to cut weight.

I did the sub-6:30 2K in 2006 at a somewhat lower drag and as a heavyweight, albeit still without preparing for it.

ranger

[aharmer]

Your continuous rebuttals are interesting, even after the thousandth time. What would really be interesting would be one of these performances you keep referring to. Olympians have adopted their sport, won medals, and gone on to other sports in the time it has taken you to learn how to pull a chain on an ergometer. You've said numerous times that the 1:48 FM may be your third try. Now that you have 1:44 FM ability I would assume the 1:48 would be your initial sub-maximal effort. ny idea when this simple initial trial will take place?

[Fred]

Your claims of 1:46 FM are just talk rich, that's all. You have never once provided anything to backup your claims that you are even remotely close to it.

On the contrary, Fred. If you have been listening, you know that I have backed it up all along the line.

<snip, lot of unquantified statements about your athletic ability>

In terms of effectiveness and efficiency, I now row as well as any lightweight of any age.

Well, number 1, you obviously have a vastly different opinion on what it means to back up a statement with data. Data, by definition, is quantifiable (which of course you abhor, as you have indicated in the past.

And number 2, your definition of "rowing well" is flawed rich:
You view a session where you row 1:48 for a while, take a break, row 1:48 for a while, take a break, finishing with a 40 minute 10k done at an average pace of 2:00 as somehow vastly superior to a 40 minute 10k someone else would do (whether it was done in interval format or not), and in fact exactly equivalent to a 36 min 10k (1:48 average pace).

These breaks you take arent innocuous Rich. You love to ignore them, talking endlessly of "taking only good strokes" and extrapolating your interval time to an average pace for the entire session, but the reality is, it's just a regular interval session. Folks do them all the time.

There is nothing unique about your training (other than you not reporting any time/distance), either in volume or session format. I know loads of >50 yr old folks that workout 2x a day.

[ranger]

What is so nice about middlin' UT1 heart rates is this:

Given how far removed these heart rates are from your anaerobic threshold, you can do this sort of rowing at steady state over long distances , and from day to day, for _all_ of your meters, with no residual tiredness, damage, staleness, etc.

That's what I am doing now.

1:44 @ 26 spm (12 SPI)

Great stuff.

ranger

[ranger]

There is nothing unique about your training

Yea, for sure.

As I understand, all of the other 60s lwts are also rowing 20K a day of 1:44 @ 26 spm (12 SPI) with a middlin' UT1 HR.

I am just following the crowd.

It's nice to be doing what everyone else is doing.

Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.

ranger

[ranger]

And number 2, your definition of "rowing well" is flawed rich:
You view a session where you row 1:48 for a while, take a break, row 1:48 for a while, take a break, finishing with a 40 minute 10k done at an average pace of 2:00 as somehow vastly superior to a 40 minute 10k someone else would do

Indeed I do, for good reason, if it is done rowing well (13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights).

There is only one productive way to train for rowing:

Take good strokes.

If you row badly for a lot of meters, you just train yourself to be bad.

No reason to be dumb about your training.

ranger

[ranger]

Given that the 60s lwt 2K American record is 1:44/6:56, no 60s lwts can do 5K at much better than 1:50 at AT.

RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 60-69 | 2011 Season

1 gregory brock 62 santa cruz ca USA 18:17.0 IND_V I
2 Henry Baker 63 Santa Barbara CA USA 18:27.4 RowPro S
3 Hugh Conway 62 St. Pats TOW Club IRL 18:41.6 IND_V I
4 Bob Willis 60 Longmeadow Ma USA 18:48.4 IND I
5 Terry Dargan 66 Sydney NSW AUS 18:49.0 IND_V I
6 Ed Pabst 61 Terre Haute IN USA 18:50.6 IND I
7 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 18:52.6 IND_V I
8 Joe Keating 62 London IRL 18:53.2 C2Log I
9 Rob Drury 63 Maidstone Kent GBR 19:00.8 C2Log I
10 Rob Codling 61 Berkhamsted GBR 19:06.7 IND I
11 Stephen Sirico 62 Milford CT USA 19:09.0 IND I

Greg Brock is the 60s lwt 2K Amercan record holder.

My target for 5K is 1:39/16:30.

ranger

[aharmer]

And my target is to win the Presidency on the Independent ticket, implementing an entirely new taxation and fiscal system in the United States. I haven't taken any steps toward this target, yet still stand an infinitely better chance of achieving the target than you.

[Fred]

My target for 5K is 1:39/16:30.

Regardless of what your target is, you cant break 18min for a 5k now.

[Fred]

There is nothing unique about your training

Yea, for sure. As I understand, all of the other 60s lwts are also rowing 20K a day of 1:44 @ 26 spm (12 SPI) with a middlin' UT1 HR.

So since you are doing 10k OTE + 10k OTW per day, interval sessions at ~2:00 average pace (OTE), yes, there are several other 60s lightweights doing that.

not many, but a few. you are among the top 5 in your age category when you can make LW.

[Carl Watts]

The chances of you hitting your 5K Erg target are the same as you standing with a bow and arrow with the target 5km away in the distance.

Seriously, just post an 18min 5K IND_V RIGHT NOW and you would be at the top of the Rankings ! How easy is that for you, just a warm up for your FM ! prove all the naysayer wrong ! Wow how good would that feel ? Better than any medal that's for sure. A sub 18min 5K is my goal for this season and trust me it's going to feel great if I can do it.

[JimR]

The chances of you hitting your 5K Erg target are the same as you standing with a bow and arrow with the target 5km away in the distance.

Seriously, just post an 18min 5K IND_V RIGHT NOW and you would be at the top of the Rankings ! How easy is that for you, just a warm up for your FM ! prove all the naysayer wrong ! Wow how good would that feel ? Better than any medal that's for sure. A sub 18min 5K is my goal for this season and trust me it's going to feel great if I can do it.

Nope ... not gonna do it ... wouldn't be prudent ... racing the training, nope not today.

JimR