Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

the strategy to row a good marathon is to pick a reasonable pace and then use the lowest, not highest, spi that I can maintain.

That's just what I have done.

I pull 13 SPI; but I am reducing my stroking power to 11.5 SPI for distance rowing, rowing with a light stroke.

I'll rate 24 spm for the FM trial.

24 spm is an entirely reasonable rate for a FM, especially if you are stroking lightly at 95 df.

That's a 4-to-1 ratio.

24 spm @ 11.5 SPI is 1:48.

Rowing well at 95 df., I now row 1:48 pace with a UT2 or low UT1 HR.

That's also entirely reasonable for a FM.

This has nothing to do with our discussion of peak force, though.

No, I am not rowing with a flat force curve, sustaining the full force of my legs at the the catch into the finish.

When I am rowing 1:48 @ 24 spm at 95 df., I get 120 kgF. of peak force with my legs.



ranger

[ranger]

I won’t make progress OTW until I take some lessons

I have made _loads_ of progress OTW without any lessons.

Sure, lessons might help, too, but there are no guarantees, certainly.

As it turns out, now that my wife is retired, I am spending summers, from May to September, from now on, in Door Country, WI; so it will be difficult for me to take lessons.

As far as I know, my 1x is the only one in the county.

In the seven years I have been rowing there, I have never seen another.

There are no rowing clubs in Door County.

Perhaps I can take some OTW lessons in the winter, after I am retired, if my wife and I spend the winter months in a warm climate, as it seems we might.

We are considering San Diego, San Francisco, and/or Sarasota.

ranger

[Steve G]

Rich
You seem to manage a lot of photos of your monitor, although rather meaningless, why not move the camera a fraction and show us your trashed bike? Just curious what it looks like

Cheers

[mikvan52]

Good Sunday so far.
Prodigious posting from ranger.
Do I count 19...
Haven't read any - will probably skip today - won't miss anything...dat's fo' shu
Man do I love the ignore feature setting!

I like your dream, Byron....
It would be amazing if Rich listened to someone who knew something about sculling... He get quite good!... eventually.
10 years of (really) "learning to row" would put him right up there in the 2021 HOCR....

[lancs]

There is no evidence yet that I can't sustain the rates and paces I have been "working with," rowing well at low drag (95 df.)

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I like it.

So along those lines, there's no evidence yet I can't sustain 1:29 for a 2k...

[ranger]

So along those lines, there's no evidence yet I can't sustain 1:29 for a 2k...

Sure, if you have been rowing all of your meters comfortably at 1:29 and a reasonable 2K rate, say 36 spm.

Have you?

That's a nice 14 SPI.

ranger

[ranger]

You seem to manage a lot of photos of your monitor, although rather meaningless

Meaningless?

Hardly

The force contour of your normal stroke, especially at UT2 and 22-24 spm, is the most meaningful thing imaginable.

By and large, it tell you how good you are at rowing.

It's a great 2K predictor.

UT2 is done at 2K + 15.

ranger

[Citroen]

So along those lines, there's no evidence yet I can't sustain 1:29 for a 2k...

Sure, if you have been rowing all of your meters comfortably at 1:29 at a reasonable 2K rate, say 36 spm.

Have you?

It's more likely that Paul has been doing stuff at 1:29 than the likelihood of you producing any evidence of rowing anything at 1:34 at any drag factor with your normal anchor hauling stroke or your "perfect 13 SPI LWT stroke" or your equally unlikely "perfect 16 SPI HWT stroke".

Paul has a finite chance of doing that (close to the odds of winning the Euromillions lottery), you certainly can't do that no matter what odds you choose.

[ranger]

I am still wondering about the claim that it is possible for a lightweight to do an effective and efficient FM stroke at 1:48 and 95 df. that has a low peak force and sustains the force of the legs at the catch right through to the finish.

Can someone out there illustrate this for me?

It is clear that I do nothing of the sort.




ranger

[lancs]

So along those lines, there's no evidence yet I can't sustain 1:29 for a 2k...

Sure, if you have been rowing all of your meters comfortably at 1:29 and a reasonable 2K rate, say 36 spm.

Have you?

Clearly not.

Does this mean you've been doing all of your metres at 1:34 and 36spm?

Even so, I have as much evidence that I'm 'on track' for a 5:59 as you do for any of your goals.....

[mikvan52]

Rich:
I thought you might like to see this..
Fitness improving here..
w/o hard work

Comment: I think my aerobic base is improving... hr is down....I couldn't hold 1:59 / 19 spm effort at UT1 a month ago at such a low rate...

10k

40:21.3 - 2:01.0 - 19 spm - 128 bpm - on slides - 120 df

8:10 - 2k - 2:02.5 - 21 - 120
8:12 - 2k - 2:03.2 - 19 - 119 .. slowed down to hold HR level
8:03 - 2k - 2:00.8 - 19 - 130
7:57 - 2k - 1:59.4 - 19 - 136 .. decided to hold 1:59-2:00 pace til end
7:57 - 2k - 1:59.3 - 19 - 136

easy UT2 end w/ UT1
strong force curve


Compare to Feb. 23....

time -- meter -- /500m -- s/m -- ♥
30:00.0 - 7573 -- 1:58.8 -- 22 spm -- 133
06:00 - 1489 -- 2:00.8 -- 22 -- 127bpm
12:00 - 1544 -- 1:56.5 -- 24 -- 134bpm
18:00 - 1525 -- 1:58.0 -- 22 -- 134bpm
24:00 - 1512 -- 1:59.0 -- 22 -- 136bpm
30:00 - 1503 -- 1:59.7 -- 21 -- 137bpm

Comment: kept to 135 bpm avg.

[ranger]

Does this mean you've been doing all of your metres at 1:34 and 36spm?

I'll have to do much better than that when I am sharpening.

8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 1:30

O.K.

I'll change my question.

If you have just been doing leisurely FM rowing, as I have, have you been doing it at 1:43 and a UT2 (or low UT1) HR?

ranger

[ranger]

strong force curve

Post a digipic of your force curve at 10 SPI (2:00 @ 20 spm), as you were rowing in this session.

Let's take a look.

I would be interested to see how an experienced and accomplished OTW rower sustains the power of their legs at the catch right through to the finish with their arms.

I find that possible to do rowing badly at a low stroking power and max drag, as I used to do when I just hauled anchor with my back and arms and neglected my legs, but I find that impossible to do rowing well at a high stroking power and 95 df. making full use of my legs in good timing with my back and arms.

I sustain force over 90 kgF. for about half of my stroke, but that is all.

And I certainly can't sustain the 120 kg.F I get at the peak of my force curve right on out into the finish with my back and arms after my legs are done.



ranger

[ranger]

Fitness improving here

Happy to see you are making progress after the time off.

I am doing similar sorts of rowing.

I like to work in and around 80% HRR (135 bpm for you; 160 bpm for me), too, albeit at 24-28 spm, rather than 20 spm, now that I am rowing at 95 df. and am no longer learning to row.

At 95 df., that's a 4-to-1 ratio.

I also do most of my cross-training at this level of effort (80% HRR).

Middlin' UT1

Middlin' UT1 is probably an upper limit for a FM HR, at least, for me.

ranger

[ranger]

2:01.0 - 19 spm - 128 bpm

So that low rate (UT2) rowing can still has some meaning, for UT1/distance rowing, I would keep the rate up, otherwise things get too turgid, arhythmic.

This is what PaulS seems to suggest, too, with his 10 MPS program.

Unless you are still learning to row, if you are going to row 2:00 with a UT1 HR, row at 25 spm, not 19 spm.

If you want to speed up, row 1:55 @ 26 spm, 1:51 @ 27 spm, 1:47 @ 28 spm, 1:43 @ 29 spm 1:40 @ 30 spm, etc.

Or some such thing.

That keeps the rowing sprightly.

I like to shoot for something like 26 spm, although not right at 10 MPS, a bit more than that (e.g., 1:46 @ 26 spm).

Given my natural stroking power (13 SPI), even stroking lightly, I don't hit 10 MPS until 29 spm (11 SPI), or perhaps even 30 spm (11.7 SPI).

I also like 26 spm for my everyday rowing OTW.

ranger