Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

He's also assuming that that which applies to well-trained quality lightweights applies to him

No, just the opposite.

Distance trials no longer _assume_ success.

They demonstrate it.

ranger

[ranger]

It shouldn't be a surprise at all that I can row 1:48 pace with a HR of 155 bpm.

I assume that most quality lightweights can do exactly the same.

For instance, Mike VB also rows 1:48 pace with a HR of 155 bpm.

The only difference between us is that 155 bpm for Mike is top-end AT, pushing into TR.

Even though I am older than Mike, for me, 155 bpm is middlin' UT1.

Therefore, for Mike, 1:48 is 5K pace; and by "double the d, add 3," that makes Mike's 2K pace 1:43.

For me, 1:48 is FM pace; and by "double the d, add 3," that makes my 2K pace 1:34.

Mike has lost much of his youthful aerobic capacity.

I haven't.

If Mike trained himself to race a FM, he wouldn't pull better than 1:57, because a FM can only be done at middlin' UT1, at best.

As Mike has just demonstrated and explained, his top-end UT2 pace is up over 2:00 pace.

Rowing well (13 SPI) at low drag (95 df.) in a 4-to-1 ratio, my top-end UT2 pace might well be 1:50 or under.

ranger

[ranger]

He's also assuming that that which applies to well-trained quality lightweights applies to him

You mean, these guys?

RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 42,195m (Marathon) | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 60-69 | Current 2011

1 Joe Keating 61 London IRL 2:51:26.6 C2Log I
2 Jan van der Haar 65 Numansdorp Zuid-Holland NLD 2:58:58.2 RACE I
3 Rick Bayko 63 Newburyport MA USA 2:59:57.3 IND_V I
4 Dave Stewart 61 Wimborne Dorset GBR 3:02:41.6 IND I
5 Robert Woods 60 Vista CA USA 3:25:10.3 IND I
6 Merle Clor 61 Tijeras NM USA 3:36:00.0 IND I
7 Walter Payne 69 Eaton CO USA 3:48:52.6 C2Log I
8 Larry White 63 Dahlonega GA USA 3:55:44.0 IND I

Among my peers at the present, 2:03 or so seems to be the standard over 42K.

2:00 is the WR.

Sure, it will be interesting to see what I can do compared to these standards for 60s lwts.

ranger

[PaulH]

You're either up early or up late, ranger - what's up, did that new Lagavulin arrive?

[ranger]

If you like to do UT1/Level 3 rowing in your day-to-day training, as I do, when I am not working on technique, starting easy at low UT1 and building up to top-end UT1, then, once you are warmed up, there isn't much reason to row at anything more or less than 10 MPS in your daily sessions.

If you are rowing well at low drag, 10 MPS rowing over extended distances is something like 1.5 SPI below your natural stroking power.

You lighten up a bit, but keep the ratio.

If rowing well at low drag for lightweights is 13 SPI, this means that a lightweight rower of my sort, who now rows well at low drag, should pretty quickly and naturally fall into something like 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI, 10 MPS) after they warm up.

That's what I seem to be doing now.

At 30 spm, pulling 10 MPS at 95 df., I am in a 3-to-1 ratio.

.5 seconds for the drive, 1.5 seconds for the recovery.

_Very_ comfortable stuff.

For spirited, everyday distance rowing, no one needs to row in a ratio much higher than 3-to-1.

I can't wait to try this stuff out OTW in my Fluid.

This distance stroke at 30 spm is my Head of the Charles stroke.

Most of the good rowers at the Head of the Charles rate around 30 spm in their singles.

ranger

[lancs]

60min, 1:48 @ 24 spm, should come along pretty easily now, I would think.

Interesting you say that as I'm interested in how you'll transform your inability to get past 5k at that pace into you pulling a FM at 1:48.

What is the purpose of your statement that I've highlighted above? I mean, really, what is the point? You, I and (hopefully) everyone here reading knows that a) you'll never ever do the session you mention and b) you can't do a quarter of the time at that pace. So why bother? Why is it you lie so often and so much?

[ranger]

60min, 1:48 @ 24 spm (11.5 SPI), steady state, at 155 bpm, 75% HRR, should come along pretty easily now.

ranger

[ranger]

Hey.

Can you guys do 30 spm aat 95 df. in a 3-to-1 ratio?

Great stuff.

ranger

[Citroen]

It shouldn't be a surprise at all that I can row 1:48 pace with a HR of 155 bpm.

For how long?
How soon does your HR drift up above 155?
How soon do you have to take a break in your stroke?

Is this misplaced belief that you don't get HR drift the reason for your abject failure to break seven minutes at BIRC last fall? Or are you just a complete cretin?

Also how do you invent all that bollocks that you've written about Mike VB's training? What is the random sentence generator that you're using? Are you using your broken extrapolation function of Rangermath on Mike's regularly posted blog entries?

[ranger]

up early?

Yea.

Gotta teach today, but even so, I might try to get in 2.5 hours OTBike after erging (but before I have to shove off for class).

BTW, this work OTBike is carving my weight down pretty nicely.

As I pump up my meters OTErg, and continue to shoot for 2.5 hours OTBike, I should make weight, just naturally, with no dieting, by the end of April.

If I get so that I am doing "ultras," I will be burning about 5000 calories a day with my my erging and biking.

ranger

[Citroen]

OTBike [sic] after erging.

Why not call it "CYCLING" like everyone else does, why invent a new jargon term?

[ranger]

How soon does your HR drift up above 155?

No need for drift above 155 bpm.

This is steady state rowing, once I am heated up.

My HR drifts up to 155 bpm and then stays there, steady state.

If Mike VB did a lot of endurance cross-training, as I do, he would row 1:55 @ 26 spm (10 MPS, 9 SPI) for a HM, steady state, with no drift.

Not sure if he can do that, given how he trains now, though.

Someone who does three hours (180min) of training a day is in a pretty different place than someone who does a half hour (30min) of training a day.

Each morning before work, I do what Mike does in a week.

In a week, I do as much as Mike does in a couple of months.

In a couple of months, I do as much as Mike does in a year.

In ten years, I do as much as Mike does/has done/can do in a lifetime.

ranger

[PaulH]

If I get so that I am doing "ultras," I will be burning about 5000 calories a day with my my erging and biking.

Ah but you won't, will you? And before you leap in and say that I'm just naysaying, let me save you the bother - I say nay! I routinely do sessions closer to 'ultra' than you, despite being quite astonishingly less fit than you. I managed to do this with very little practice, whereas you've been aiming to do 'ultras' for what, 8 years now, and you still haven't made it. I'm not sure what the mental barrier you have is on it, but clearly it's a sturdy one.

[ranger]

Ah but you won't, will you? And before you leap in and say that I'm just naysaying, let me save you the bother - I say nay! I routinely do sessions closer to 'ultra' than you, despite being quite astonishingly less fit than you. I managed to do this with very little practice, whereas you've been aiming to do 'ultras' for what, 8 years now, and you still haven't made it. I'm not sure what the mental barrier you have is on it, but clearly it's a sturdy one.

I haven't made it to an "ultra"?

Hardly.

As I just said a few pages back, I suspect I have done about 750 ultras over the years I have been rowing.

So, no reason not to do them again.

If you do them, congrats, especially if you are slower than I am, because then they would take six hours or more.

How do you do yours?

ranger

[PaulH]

As I just said a few pages back, I suspect I have done about 750 ultras over the years I have been rowing.

Actually you guessed you'd done that many from when you started rowing until you were 52-53. I don't believe you, but that's irrelevant. I said that in the last 8 years (i.e. since then) you've repeatedly said you want to stretch things out to an some sort of 'ultra'-style workout, and in that time you've done perhaps a handful. Certainly not the routine occurrence you constantly suggest is a matter of weeks away.

How do you do yours?

Well I'm not doing them right now, because I don't have the need, but when I was I'd typically do 2.5-3 hours before work, and 1.5-2 hours after. Not a full 'ultra', but then I didn't claim they were; they're just closer to it than you are.