Ranger's training thread

[JimR]

Boom! Three in one post.

Bugger! Come on Rich dont let me down. Throw daddy a "smooth as butta". Pleaseeeeeeeeee?

Redzone and Bellboy -

kudos for best successful attempt to bring humor to what is often a humorless medium.

Me? I'll go all in on "if"

BAM! Fait Accompli ... who's your daddy?

JimR

[bellboy]

Oh bollocks! Have you got an inside line with Cureton?!! I mean how can there not be a "butta"? Im highly miffed.

[atklein90]

Deep breaths mate. You are obviously suffering from Ann Arbour Ad Nauseum Syndrome. It has afflicted many of us through the years but we battled on and won out in the end. You can do it brother. I'l even be your sponsor if you like.

P.S. If you start quoting Robert Frost out of context give your missus my email address. It means its time for an intervention.

Thanks for bringing me back to reality Bellboy. Sorry for the 'Syndrome'!

[Tinpusher]

If I now do a FM @ 1:48, these historical issues are blown away.

This "if" was just over 3 hours ahead of the "fait accompli" at the top of page 793.
We need more ranger bingo!

[adutton]

We need more ranger bingo!

This really made my day. I couldn't resist:

Enhanced Ranger Bingo

Ranger Bingo.png (52.33 KiB) Viewed 5986 times

[Tinpusher]

Awesome!
3:35 EDT and no posts. He must be having a lie in today.

[ranger]

Mike--

What is your UT2 pace?

What do you row, steady state, over long distances (20K, etc.) with a HR of 125 bpm?
ranger

[ranger]

If I now do a FM @ 1:48, these historical issues are blown away.

This "if" was just over 3 hours ahead of the "fait accompli" at the top of page 793.
We need more ranger bingo!

The "fait accompli" is for rowng well (13 SPI) at low drag (108 df.), not for the FM @ 1:48.

But if I am right about my training, the latter will be an inevitable effect of the former.

We'll soon see.

I am preparing to race a FM now.

ranger

[ranger]

As Matthias illustrates, for lightweights as least, easy everyday rowing, at a middlin' UT1 HR, is in and around 26 spm.

FM rate and heart rate.

So, in terms of pace, the only difference between lightweight rowers on these matters is the quality of their rowing relative to their aerobic capacity, how much work gets done on each stroke (SPI).

Matthias gets quite a bit of work done per stroke, 11 SPI.

Mike--

When you row an easy hour or so @ 26 spm, how fast are you going?

How much work do you get done per stroke?

How well do you row?

ranger

[PaulH]

Here's what I suspect is puzzling many people, ranger. A marathon at your chosen pace should take less time than you say you're currently spending in training each day. Your stroke is set, and as you've said many times a FM is basically a UT row, which you're capable of doing now. So why not do one, right now? Sure, it won't be the very best time you could do, as I'm sure there are matters of strategy etc. to tweak, but then doing a FM would be a great way to tease out some of those improvements ready for an all-out assault in a week or two.

[ranger]

My FM target, 1:48, is six seconds per 500m better than my pb of ten years ago.

Yep.

It appears that I am _at least_ that six seconds per 500m (or perhaps even more, up to eight or ten seconds per 500m) better now that I row well at low drag (108 df.).

Like Matthias, I'll row a FM at 26 spm.

But, picking up the rate and pace a bit, for everyday rowing, I now get a beautifully relaxed top-end UT1 stroke, 1:42 @ 28 spm (11.7 SPI).

So it appears that, in this distance rowing, my step on the 10 MPS ladder is not 1:43 @ 29 spm but 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI).

Delighted with this.

The grooves are getting deeper and deeper.

Love this rowing at low drag.

The huge ratio is amazing, as is the light chain.

You can really get quick legs (at the catch) and quick arms (at the finish).

The chain is accelerating all over the place.

When I am pulling 1:42 @ 28 spm (11.7 SPI), I get 125 kgF. of peak force, easy as pie.

As I remember, on all of the 60min rows that I did back in 2002-2003, given that 60min was my favorite session, I used to pull 1:52 pace.

If I am now pulling 1:42 for the same purpose, I am ten seconds per 500m better.

1:42/17.7K is two seconds per 500m beyond the official Open lwt 60min WR.

Lightweight Men < 165lbs./75kg

Season* Record Set

Event Record Age Name Wt. Gender Country Season Verification*
60m 13108 12 Briggs Polikoff L M USA 2009 PM3/PM4 verification code
60m 13371 81 Robert Spenger L M USA 2006 Historical record*
60m 15034 70 Roger Bangay L M GBR 2007 Witnessed at public club
60m 15928 60 Greg Hodge L M USA 2007 PM3/PM4 verification code
60m 16626 16 Richard Mangione L M USA 2006 PM3/PM4 verification code
60m 17132 53 Rod Freed L M USA 2003 Historical record*
60m 17282 32 Dan Staite L M GBR 2006 Historical record*
60m 17285 46 Kent Timm L M USA 2005 Historical record*
60m 17319 29 Thomas Ebert L M DNK 2003 Historical record*

At the moment, no 55s or 60s lwts can row 1:42 for 2K.

RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–65) | Current 2011

2 Paul Wenham 55 GBR 6:50.2 RACE I
Frede Nørskov Nielsen 56 Fredericia DEN 6:50.6 IND I
3 Tor Arne Simonsen 60 Oslo NOR 6:51.0 RACE I
4 Eric Boyer 55 FRA 6:53.5 RACE I
5 Michael van Beuren 58 Hartland VT USA 6:55.0 IND_V S
6 Rob Glidden 55 Rancho Palos Verdes CA USA 6:56.4 IND I
7 Graham Brown 58 Norwich GBR 6:57.2 IND I
8 Chuck Otis 55 Corvallis OR USA 6:58.4 IND I
9 David Sutkowy 57 manlius NY USA 6:59.9 RACE I
10 Steve Brown 55 Hamilton GBR 7:01.6 RACE I

ranger

[ranger]

Here's what I suspect is puzzling many people, ranger. A marathon at your chosen pace should take less time than you say you're currently spending in training each day. Your stroke is set, and as you've said many times a FM is basically a UT row, which you're capable of doing now. So why not do one, right now? Sure, it won't be the very best time you could do, as I'm sure there are matters of strategy etc. to tweak, but then doing a FM would be a great way to tease out some of those improvements ready for an all-out assault in a week or two.

Sure, my stroke is set, but it is still a pretty new acquisition.

As someone mentioned, I only lowered the drag to 119 df. on December 1st.

And it was still a month or so longer until I learned to relax my shoulders and abs at the catch and my shoulders in the middle of the drive when I swing my back.

Then it has only been a couple of weeks since I lowered the drag to where I have it now, 108 df.

If you have a sky-high aerobic capacity, as I do, the whole secret to fast distance rowing is the combination of effectiveness and efficiency you can achieve with your technique.

But full mastery of a technique takes some time.

You need to educate your muscles to do it automatically, unconsciously, easiily, habitually, etc.

I think another month or so rowing at 108 df. will do the trick.

108 df. is not _that_ much different from 119 df.

But there are some differences.

I am playing with them now.

One difference that I noticed today is that I can really accelerate the chain into the finish at 108 df.

Great stuff.

ranger

[ranger]

Here's what I suspect is puzzling many people, ranger. A marathon at your chosen pace should take less time than you say you're currently spending in training each day. Your stroke is set, and as you've said many times a FM is basically a UT row, which you're capable of doing now. So why not do one, right now? Sure, it won't be the very best time you could do, as I'm sure there are matters of strategy etc. to tweak, but then doing a FM would be a great way to tease out some of those improvements ready for an all-out assault in a week or two.

This said, I agree entirely that doing FMs at various (easy) paces would be a great way to train now.

That's what I did back in 2002-2003.

At one point, I did a continuous FM every day for two weeks.

I'll see what I can do now, given my new technique.

As I mentioned, on days that I have enough time to do it, 3 x 60min OTErg followed by 3 x 60min OTBike, all done at 155 bpm, steady state, would be ideal training for a FM trial OTErg, I think.

In training, at least, I like the breaks every hour--to towel off, hydrate, relax, and regroup for another effort.

ranger

[KevJGK]

But full mastery of a technique takes some time.

You need to educate your muscles to do it automatically, unconsciously, easiily, habitually, etc.

I think another month or so rowing at 108 df. will do the trick.

108 df. is not _that_ much different from 119 df.

But there are some differences.

I am playing with them now.

One difference that I noticed today is that I can really accelerate the chain into the finish at 108 df.

[ranger]

BTW, one of my goals since 2003 has been to get to the point that I can do a daily 5K @ 1:42 to start my sessions.

Back in the fall of 2003, I did a 5K @ 1:45 to start each session, and since then, I have been looking for an additional three seconds per 500m over 2K.

Now that I have arrived at a comfortable 1:42 @ 28 spm (11.7 SPI, 108 df.), this might be possible.

I'll see what I can do.

1:42/17:00 is a second per 500m under the 60s hwt 5K WR.

Not many lightweights of any age pull 17:00 for 5K.

RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | All Ages | Current 2011 Season

Hywel Davies 36 GBR 16:55.5 IND I
Rupert Price 19 Kingston GBR 17:09.3 IND I
1 Mike Selberg 21 Middlefield CT USA 17:10.0 IND I
1 Graham Stevens 20 Gloucestershire GBR 17:10.0 IND I
3 Ben Gittus-Smith 22 Banbury Oxfordshire GBR 17:18.9 IND I
4 Cameron Heron 18 Portland OR USA 17:28.7 IND I
5 Frans van der Steen 52 Buitenpost Friesland NLD 17:29.0 C2Log I
6 Kyle Schoonbee 15 Kwa-Zulu Natal ZAF 17:29.9 IND I
7 Ben Chick 18 Newmarket NH USA 17:30.8 IND I
8 Pekka Nieminen 29 Imatra FIN 17:33.4 IND I
9 Odd Geir Aarrestad 50 Stavanger NOR 17:33.9 IND I
10 Jamie Fraser-Mackenzie 17 Harare ZWE 17:34.4 C2Log I

Most 60s lwts have a hard time pulling 18:00.

RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 60-69 | Current 2011 Season

1 gregory brock 62 santa cruz ca USA 18:17.0 IND_V I
2 Henry Baker 63 Santa Barbara CA USA 18:27.4 RowPro S
3 Hugh Conway 62 St. Pats TOW Club IRL 18:41.6 IND_V I
4 Bob Willis 60 Longmeadow Ma USA 18:48.4 IND I
5 Terry Dargan 66 Sydney NSW AUS 18:49.0 IND_V I
6 Ed Pabst 61 Terre Haute IN USA 18:50.6 IND I
7 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 18:52.6 IND_V I
8 Joe Keating 62 London IRL 18:53.2 C2Log I
9 Rob Drury 63 Maidstone Kent GBR 19:00.8 C2Log I
10 Rob Codling 61 Berkhamsted GBR 19:06.7 IND I

Greg Brock holds the 60s lwt 2K American record--1:44/6:56.

ranger