Ranger's training thread

[Bob S.]

there is no sign of any record of him doing this, but it worked fine for me for a couple of seasons, getting me into the top ranks of the nonathlon and resulting in several WRs which are still standing.

Check again, Bob.

I also was highly ranked in the nonathlon back in 2002-2003, the top ten, as I remember.

Ah, I was 7th in 2002:

http://www.nonathlon.com/ranking.php?year=2002

O. K., I stand corrected. What I had in mind was a series of posts during the 2008 season. I held first in the nonathlon for a while at the time, until "Rowan" got around to doing her distance pieces and knocked me down to a distant second.

Bob S.

[ranger]

BTW you mentioned earlier in the day about Denis Hastings having no upper body strength, I sat behind him on the erg in 2002. I thought at the time, how can a big guy with massive shoulders like him make weight. He makes you look puny Rich!

No, he doesn't.

Dennis couldn't pull a sub-6:30 2K at 12 SPI, as I have already done, if his life depended on it.

He pulls 9 SPI for 2K.

ranger

[ranger]

O. K., I stand corrected.

My 7th nonathlon ranking in 2002-2003 was against heavyweight standards.

In 2003, I broke the 50s _lightweight_ 2K WR--three times.

At WIRC 2003, I won the 50s lightweight hammer (in WR time) and the 50s heavyweight silver, simultaneously.

ranger

[ranger]

There is no need to do a lot of races if your fitness is maximal or you are not getting used to a new technique.

Distance racing is just top-end UT1 and AT work, "threshold" rowing.

ranger

[ranger]

Still living in the past Rich?

Hardly.

I left that behind in 2003 and started to work on technique.

Given decline with age, the lwt 6:41s that I have pulled the last two years, at max drag, unprepared, still working on technique, are the full equivalent of the lwt 6:28 I pulled in 2003.

But with much more up-side!

My work on technique is now complete.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (108 df.).

So I am again preparing to race.

Everyone gets about a dozen seconds over 2k from full race preparation.

I am not sure what rowing well at low drag is worth, but I would assume something similar.

We'll soon find out (when I race a FM).

So, rowing well at low drag, fully prepared, I assume that my prospects for a quality 2K are _very_ good.

6:16?

ranger

[mikvan52]

You've said that "good training" involves dropping down one distance at a tine from the FM
Your record for ever doing this is nil.
Why is this?

BTW: I do not think that this maverick approach is worth the effort. Nor does anyone else do it... especially old men like us.

I thought that I had sent a reply to this, but it hasn't shown up on the forum, so I will give it another shot. Apologies if they both turn up.

Whoa, Mike! We went through this once before. I agree, that there is no sign of any record of him doing this, but it worked fine for me for a couple of seasons, getting me into the top ranks of the nonathlon and resulting in several WRs which are still standing. I don't claim that it is a great training method, especially for the pukey 2k, but I don't think that it should be disparaged.

With regard to the old men bit, from my perspective almost all of you are still just a bunch of kids (definition of kid: too young to have served legally, without parental permission, in the armed services of the U.S. during WWII, i.e born after mid-August, 1927).

Bob S.

Bob:
Do you believe that a WR in the FM is the best prep for a WR in a 2k?

[Byron Drachman]

Byron--

I guess it's your turn, no?

You said you were taking up my challenge.

Let's see 50 jackknives.

ranger

I just got back from the river a while ago. It was a beautiful morning, with temperature a little below freezing when I started out. I did 20K OTW while wimps who stay indoors were jerking on chains and making videos demonstrating poor technique. I said I will make a video after you post a video of you doing 50 jacknives, 25 extension push-ups, and 30 pull-ups. I am still waiting for that video.

I looked at the video where you report to do the extension push-ups. It would appear that you cannot do a single extension push-up. You need to start with your arms extended, not just merely with your hands slightly ahead of your shoulders. You then need to hold your back straight and do a push-up and then go all the way down before going up again. Extension push-ups are not just push-ups poorly done with the hands slightly ahead of the shoulders and the back flopping up and down.


However, for entertainment purposes I will make a video of me doing 50 jacknives. I will do that tomorrow.

[ranger]

I looked at the video where you report to do the extension push-ups. It would appear that you cannot do a single extension push-up. You need to start with your arms extended, not just merely with your hands slightly ahead of your shoulders. You then need to hold your back straight and do a push-up and then go all the way down before going up again. Extension push-ups are not just push-ups poorly done with the hands slightly ahead of the shoulders and the back flopping up and down.

My extension press ups are absolutely fine. They don't have any resemblance to your description.

ranger

[ranger]

t was a beautiful morning, with temperature a little below freezing when I started out.

But an even nicer afternoon.

No wind, 50 degrees F.

Wonderful.

I am going out on the river now.

No reason to go out when it's freezing.

That's bone-headed.

ranger

[ranger]

Do you believe that a WR in the FM is the best prep for a WR in a 2k?

Matthias has just answered that question.

No words necessary.

A FM at WR (his own WR) 2K + 12.5.

Impressive.

Matthias also makes the point, made earlier by Graham Watt and others, that the rower who is best over a FM is also best over 2K.

ranger

[Bob S.]

Bob:
Do you believe that a WR in the FM is the best prep for a WR in a 2k?

No. I believe that a lot of early distance work to build up endurance is good training for any event. I admit that the marathon is out of line with this, i.e. it is a much longer distance than is needed for training for most ordinary racing events. It is the sort of thing that is done because "it is there." In my case, the goal was to do well in the nonathlon and the FM was necessary to complete the series.

My old coach, Ky Ebright, used to say that if you train for the long races, the short ones will take care of themselves. In those days, most of the college races were 2-4 miles and the 2ks were only a once in every 4 years aberration. Our maximum training days were about 12 miles. I well remember the day that we went the full six miles to the mouth of the Estuary without a word from the coach until he called, "Weigh Enough!" His next words were, "Turn 'em around while you are resting." His unmatched record at the Olympics (i.e. 2ks) and his many successes at the IRA Poughkeepsie regattas (3 and 4 miles) are good evidence that he was on to something.

It may well be different now. I suppose that it is on account of the influence of the Olympics, but the 2k has become the central focus of most rowing competition and most training plans (e.g. the WP) emphasize that as the main goal. In today's more highly competitive rowing circles, my coach's old "seat of the pants" philosophy may well be outdated now since a more scientific approach is being used.

As far as the strategy of starting from the top down is concerned, I figured that once I got the marathon out of the way, I would have the toughest one done and it would get easier. It was working quite well for a while in 2008 and I picked up HW WRs for the FM, HM, 60', and 10K. Then I got knocked on my back while trying to help get a horse onto a trailer and was laid low by the flu shortly after that. My 6 subsequent events were not up to par, except for a 500m that surprised me. All this was at 4,000ft, by the way.

Bob S.

[ranger]

Bob--

Sorry to say so, but I don't think that a WR-holder in the 85s age group has much relevance to anything, unless you are achieving to the level of the age groups.

The normal decline with age tends toward a second over 2K per year.

So, in the 85s age group, I think, sooner rather than later, you're going to see someone pull 6:40 as a heavyweight and 7:03 as a lightweight.

Compared to these times, your 8:15s, or whatever, are not relevant to anything.

My target at the moment is a lwt 6:16 at 60.

That would be only 18 seconds over the Open lwt WR, or closer to a decline of half a second over 2K per year.

If I pull 6:16 at 60, as I think I will, I should be solidly sub-7 at 85.

ranger

[Bob S.]

Bob--

Sorry to say so, but I don't think that a WR-holder in the 85s age group has much relevance to anything, unless you are achieving to the level of the age groups.

I have never claimed that it had any relevance, so what is your point?

Bob S.

[MRapp]

And the 60's 2k erg record is one for the ages? The sporting world probably considers it up there with the homerun record. You belittle the 80's record, yet there are probably three additional people on the planet that give a shit about the 60's record that you place on such a lofty pedastal. And remember, you're belittling a WR holder. Need I remind you that you're not? You are a pathetic little man.

And yes, those pushups were pathetic. Try again with arms completely outstretched, and go down to a resting position on each one instead of that laughable three inch humping motion you're doing in that video. There are probably 10 massive technique flaws in that video. Why don't you show another video of you doing 100 regular pushups while moving up and down about an inch...that would be equally impressive.

Better yet, if you want to show us how strong you are why don't you show a video of a true test of strength. How about some deadlifts or power cleans. Can't fake those with bad technique...the bar either comes off the floor or it doesn't.

[atklein90]

And the 60's 2k erg record is one for the ages? The sporting world probably considers it up there with the homerun record. You belittle the 80's record, yet there are probably three additional people on the planet that give a shit about the 60's record that you place on such a lofty pedastal. And remember, you're belittling a WR holder. Need I remind you that you're not? You are a pathetic little man.

And yes, those pushups were pathetic. Try again with arms completely outstretched, and go down to a resting position on each one instead of that laughable three inch humping motion you're doing in that video. There are probably 10 massive technique flaws in that video. Why don't you show another video of you doing 100 regular pushups while moving up and down about an inch...that would be equally impressive.

Better yet, if you want to show us how strong you are why don't you show a video of a true test of strength. How about some deadlifts or power cleans. Can't fake those with bad technique...the bar either comes off the floor or it doesn't.

I agree. I'd be much more impressed if you pulled 405 off the floor 15 times than whatever it was you were doing in that extension video...

The Jacknives, I have to admit were pretty good though.