Ranger's training thread

[MRapp]

And yet, the odds are in my favor that I will do it long before you do.

I'd even bet you on that, but looking at your historical ability to own up to a debt, I don't think I'd ever see the money.

Do what?

Row 50 seconds off the 2K WR for your age and weight, like you're trying to do?

Yikes.

For me, that would be 7:30.

My target is 6:16.

ranger

Again, target is nothing more than a word. My target is 5:25. I would be thrilled if I could do it. I'm not doing any training that would lead somebody to believe I was capable of it, and I most certainly have not ever shown any proof of training indicating I am capable of it. You and I have more in common than I realized.

[luckylindy]

I am _much_ better than that now.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (108 df.).

ranger

Yes, we've heard that several thousand times. Over 9000 and counting to be exact. It would be interesting to have one screenshot of 2+ strokes mixed in every 10,000 posts or so. Didn't you promise a video this morning you lying piece of trash? How about posting that old video of the 1:34/r32 you promised us before throwing a temper tantrum a 5 year old would be proud of? You have it on YouTube (unless you're lying which I guarantee is the case), you could easily just paste the link here to prove me a fool.

You can view his youtube profile if you'd like - http://www.youtube.com/user/rcureton ... I doubt he posts any videos as private.

[macroth]

Here's something that may provide some insight. It's a comment ranger posted on another video.

Yes that is what people who aren't alcoholics can't relate to...For some people it legitimately hurts to not drink

Maybe that's what he means when he says 2Ks are painful? He can't stop and have a drink like he usually does when he's "working with" his latest magic stroke.

[hjs]

atklein90--

The 2K WR in your age and weight category is 5:35.

So how are you doing?

ranger

He is doing great, nicely improving, no father time yet to botter him.


535. is below the current wr, even remembering that is beyond you.

[ranger]

Again, target is nothing more than a word.

Not if you have three WR rows and are now rowing WR pace, year after year, without even preparing for it, while training yourself (in various ways) to be better.

My target is a dozen seconds, three seconds per 500m, better than my 2K pb as a beginner, in my first few races, rowing poorly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.).

That's entirely reasonable.

For several years now, I have done just the work I have needed to do to overcome my weaknesses, which is the only thing that anyone can do to get better.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (108 df.).

So, I think that my prospects of reaching my target are now _very_ good.

We'll see!

ranger

[ranger]

You are not doing any training that would lead somebody to believe you are capable of it

On the contrary.

Any and all 60s lwts with a target of 6:16 for 2K will have to do _exactly_ the training that I have done.

They will have to learn to row well (13 SPI) at low drag (108 df.).

At the moment, the best 60s lwts pull 9 SPI, and even so, often inefficiently, e.g., at high drag.

At 9 SPI, stroking normally, you have to rate 47 spm in a 2K to pull 6:16.

That's impossible, especially for a 60s rower with somewhat reduced aeorobic capacity.

In rowing, rate is the primary issue when your aerobic capacity is declining.

Among lightweights, Stephansen rates 42 spm for 2K.

60s lightweights rate something closer to 32 spm for 2K.

At 32 spm, 1:34/6:16 is 13 SPI.

ranger

[ranger]

honestly, I could care less.

I understand entirely.

But you'll never do anything well if you don't care about it.

ranger

[PaulH]

Sure, I'll happily apologize if I've missed such a thing. So yes please, post just one of the videos of you rowing entirely naturally at a consistent 13 spi with 119 df. As these numbers are your choice, not mine, I imagine you'll be able to back them up with a display of the df from the monitor to start the video off. I'd be fascinated to see your rowing technique when you're doing it, but really just the monitor would be fine.

Sure.

I'd be happy to.

I'll see what I can put together tomorrow morning.

And this is the real disappointment for me. I suggested the simplest possible goal. One that, if I'm honest, wouldn't demonstrate much of anything *except* for your willingness to post something, and you can't even manage that in a timely manner. This is why so many here have doubts; if you can do the simplest of things, why would we believe you can do the harder things?

[Steve G]

I am _much_ better than that now.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (108 df.).

ranger

Yes, we've heard that several thousand times. Over 9000 and counting to be exact. It would be interesting to have one screenshot of 2+ strokes mixed in every 10,000 posts or so. Didn't you promise a video this morning you lying piece of trash? How about posting that old video of the 1:34/r32 you promised us before throwing a temper tantrum a 5 year old would be proud of? You have it on YouTube (unless you're lying which I guarantee is the case), you could easily just paste the link here to prove me a fool.

I cant see that video amongst the 69 others he has posted there. Perhaps it is on Photobucket or similar?
Steve

[ranger]

PaulS is right again.

If the drag is low enough, as my drag is now (108 df.), relaxed distance rowing (e.g., FM pace, for me, 155 pm, 75% HRR) gets very close to 10 MPS at your natural stroking power.

That is, if your stroking power is substantial, the rate really floats up quickly.

Because of the gigantic ratios, low rate rowing at 108 df. is obtuse, a waste of time.

With the drag that low (108 df.), I lose some of the pace (and therefore stroking power) I would get at the same rate at a higher drag (e.g., 119 df.), but I must admit, the rowing is _very_ elegant.

At 108 df. and 12 SPI, my force curve comes 45% of the way across the screen (1.25 inches out of 2.75 inches).

So, my drive time seems to be .55 seconds.

What is so elegant about base pace, then, 27.5 spm, is that it is _exactly_ a 3-to-1 ratio.

.55 seconds for the drive

1.65 seconds for the recovery

When I just relax and row at 108 df., my rate seems to gravitate naturally to something like 27.5 spm.

So it seems that I like to row in a 3-to-1 ratio, a 4-beat measure, one beat for the drive, three beats for the recovery, with the arm pull on the downbeat.

Rock on.

Rocket Roy did his FM pb at 27 spm.

I don't know, but at 108 df., I seem to prefer something like that, too.

When I am at 108 df. and 27 spm, just rowing naturally, my HR rides along at 75% HRR, 155 bpm.

The pace I go at 27 spm varies with my effort, but I seem to average around 1:45 (300 watts, 11.1 SPI).

1:51 is 10 MPS (9.5 SPI).

Roy pulled his FM pb, 1:56 @ 27 spm (224 watts, 8.3 SPI).

So if the drag is low (108 df.), we all seem to be lightening up quite a bit when we row long distances, perhaps 2 SPI lighter than we might pull in a 2K.

ranger

[ranger]

It appears that the best FM training for me, then, is just base pace rowing at 108 df.

27.5 spm, 155 bpm, 75% HRR

Whatever that comes out to in terms of pace.

The pace I hold on any given day will depend on how well I row.

This rowing is in and around 10 MPS.

My preference seems to be a bit more per stroke that that, but not much.

1:47 @ 28 spm is 10 MPS, as is 1:43 @ 29 spm.

If 27.5 spm is 75% HRR, just correlating physiological stress in a straight like with rate, 100% HRR is 36.5 spm.

ranger

[mikvan52]

It appears that the best FM training for me, then, is just base pace rowing at 108 df.

27.5 spm, 155 bpm, 75% HRR

Whatever that comes out to in terms of pace.

Stunningly simple isn't it.
Just row along easily at a %HR level... no longer concerned with watts/stroke rate or even watts...

This is a far cry from "I now row all my strokes at 13 spi" a claim that used to echo through these pages like a hollow brag... ranger-bo training now meets the real world of ordinary erg training... finally! What a relief.

What's the FM distance trial deadline?

[hjs]

It appears that the best FM training for me, then, is just base pace rowing at 108 df.

27.5 spm, 155 bpm, 75% HRR

Whatever that comes out to in terms of pace.

Stunningly simple isn't it.
Just row along easily at a %HR level... no longer concerned with watts/stroke rate or even watts...

This is a far cry from "I now row all my strokes at 13 spi" a claim that used to echo through these pages like a hollow brag... ranger-bo training now meets the real world of ordinary erg training... finally! What a relief.

What's the FM distance trial deadline?

Thats a given Mike,

When hell freezes over.

[mrfit]

I applaud ranger for actually working on efficiency instead of dreaming of it. This is HUGE!


"A man's pride is the most difficult obstacle"

-anonymous

[ranger]

Stunningly simple isn't it.
Just row along easily at a %HR level... no longer concerned with watts/stroke rate or even watts...

This is a far cry from "I now row all my strokes at 13 spi" a claim that used to echo through these pages like a hollow brag... ranger-bo training now meets the real world of ordinary erg training... finally! What a relief.

Sure.

Racing/peforming is _much_ simpler than training (i.e., overcoming your weaknesses, trying to get better, etc.).

When all of your problems are solved, you have fewer problems.

Duh.

ranger