Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

The small collection of 50s lwts who might try to follow in my footsteps might be Mike VB, Rocket Roy, Mike Caviston, Graham Watt, and Paul Siebach.

At the moment, though, I think that Mike VB and Rocket Roy don't have the physical capacity or stroking power to get the job done.

I think that Mike Caviston doesn't have the efficiency to get the job done.

And I think that Graham Watt and Paul Siebach don't have the stroking power to get the job done.

In saying this, though, I don't (at all) mean to imply that these folks can't train themselves to overcome their weaknesses, if they choose to.

Of course they can.

ranger

[ranger]

Notice that, among the various determinants of quality rowing, the only thing that is shared is race preparation.

Everyone prepares to race--and in about the same way, for about the same benefit.

Race preparation is a no-brainer.

All of the standard training plans for rowing are just guides to race preparation.

None of them say anything very substantial about physical capacity, effectiveness, and/or efficiency.

ranger

[hjs]

As it stands now, your training has produced a 7:02 rower.

No, it's produced a rower who can pull sub-6:30 @ 12 SPI, 500r30 @ 30 spm, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and 1Kr20 @ 1:42.5. Given my size and age, these results demonstrate high effectiveness.

Check back in a few months, and I will probably be able to list my results for the distance rows, which demand high efficiency: 5K, 6K, 30min, 10K, 60min, HM, FM.

ranger

hahahaha. check back, you will never ever list any result, not this sesson and not ever. You simply don,t have the balls for it. You are a pathetic old man who can,t face reality.

[ranger]

Paul--

Even without the gains in efficiency that I am about to demonstrate, the last two years, I have pulled the best 2Ks in my age and weight division, at WR pace, without even preparing for them.

It is hard to see how performances of this sort can be considered "wrong" about _anything_.

ranger

[ranger]

check back, you will never ever list any result

I had the best 2K in my age and weight division the last two years--2009 and 2010.

I also had the best 2K in my age and weight division in 2003, 2004, and 2007.

In 2002, I pulled 6:27.5 as a heavyweight.

In 2006, I pulled 6:29.7 as a heavyweight.

In 2007, I posted the 500r30 @ 1:30, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and 1Kr20 @ 1:42.5.

Last year, no one my age or weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of my 2K time.

Sure, in other years over the last decade (2005, 2008), I have just been training, rather than racing.

Racing has never made anyone any better, and I have been trying to get better.

ranger

[hjs]

check back, you will never ever list any result

I had the best 2K in my age and weight division the last two years--2009 and 2010.

I also had the best 2K in my age and weight division in 2003, 2004, and 2007.

In 2002, I pulled

In 2006, I pulled

In 2007, I posted


Racing has never made anyone any better, and I have been trying to get better.

ranger

you raced dozens of times, after 2003 you said, this season I will blablaba, but "........... you never did and never, you will never pull sub 6.50 ever and you will never post any piece, not a ranking piece, not a training, not a paddle, nothing, You don,t dare.

[JimR]

I had the best 2K in my age and weight division the last two years--2009 and 2010.

I also had the best 2K in my age and weight division in 2003, 2004, and 2007.

In 2002, I pulled 6:27.5 as a heavyweight.

In 2006, I pulled 6:29.7 as a heavyweight.

In 2007, I posted the 500r30 @ 1:30, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and 1Kr20 @ 1:42.5.

Last year, no one my age or weight (or older) came within 20 seconds of my 2K time.

I think "the point" is that no matter how you want to sping this often repeated list it does not imply that you were, are or will be a 6:16 2K erger. That goal is how you are measured because you have made it so.

JimR

[atklein90]

As it stands now, your training has produced a 7:02 rower.

No, it's produced a rower who can pull sub-6:30 @ 12 SPI, 500r30 @ 30 spm, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and 1Kr20 @ 1:42.5. Given my size and age, these results demonstrate high effectiveness.

Check back in a few months, and I will probably be able to list my results for the distance rows, which demand high efficiency: 5K, 6K, 30min, 10K, 60min, HM, FM.

ranger

It most certainly has NOT produced a sub 6:30 rower. If it did, why don't you sit down and pull one right now and show the world? Obvious answer is that you simply can't come anywhere near that time. I'm sure you will claim that this would interfere with your training. But honestly, how much effort would this really take for someone that is close to 6:16? It would be a fairly easy row, and would not hurt your training at all. But, rather than do such a thing, you'll continue to spew your garbage. In fact, if you were as good as you claim right now, you should easily be able to break 7:00 on a warmup row!

Stop quoting times that are 4-9 years old. They are completely irrelevant. Fact of the matter is, you can't break 7:00 right now, and you can't even come close to a 1:30-500. So quit being an idiot.

[ranger]

It most certainly has NOT produced a sub 6:30 rower. If it did, why don't you sit down and pull one right now and show the world? Obvious answer is that you simply can't come anywhere near that time. I'm sure you will claim that this would interfere with your training. But honestly, how much effort would this really take for someone that is close to 6:16? It would be a fairly easy row, and would not hurt your training at all. But, rather than do such a thing, you'll continue to spew your garbage. In fact, if you were as good as you claim right now, you should easily be able to break 7:00 on a warmup row!

Stop quoting times that are 4-9 years old.

Training is an orderly process, if you want to do well.

No, my sub-6:30 row five years ago, at max drag, still struggling with technique, unprepared, is not irrelevant.

Decline with age in aerobic capacity is only about a second a year over 2K.

Race preparation is worth a dozen seconds over 2K.

Not sure what rowing well at low drag is worth, but I suspect something similar.

So, there is no reason to think that my target is not entirely within reach.

A FM at 1:48 will demonstrate this--without question.

A FM at 1:48 predicts a 1:34/6:16 2K.

A FM is done at 2K + 14.

In an orderly training regimen, distance trials precede sharpening, which in turn precedes racing.

ranger

[lancs]

I think that anyone in their 50s who would try to do what I am trying to do (a lwt 6:16 at 60) would have to do it in the same way and therefore would encounter exactly the same obstacles, delays, and slow arc of development.

First, before they even began, they would have to demonstrate superior physical capacities, an unusual retention of their youthful aerobic capacity and full-body power, however that might be done.

Second, they would have to develop a stroke with sufficient effectiveness (12-13 SPI) to get the job done. That is, they would have to show that they can row with strong, quick, balanced, well-sequenced, and well-timed leverage.

Third, they would have to show that they can deliver this superior leverage completely and consistently with full relaxation and unconscious control at low drag and full slide, with a smoothly rhythmized stroke cycle and high ratios, over indefinitely long periods (a FM and beyond).

And fourth, they would have to show that they can sharpen effectively and race succesfully, at weight.

You've managed the first one out of these four. Points 2, 3 and 4 are beyond you.

Fact.

[ranger]

I think "the point" is that no matter how you want to sping this often repeated list it does not imply that you were, are or will be a 6:16 2K erger. JimR

Really?

Why?

It _certainly_ doesn't argue _against_ it.

I suspect that no lightweight can pull 500r30 @ 1:30 who can't pull 6:16 for 2K.

There is no way yet to measure my improvements in efficiency, but I suspect that no lightweight can pull sub-6:30 at max drag and 12 SPI without preparing for it, just on the basis of low rate rowing, either, if they can't pull 6:16 at low drag, free rate, fully prepared.

ranger

[lancs]

The small collection of 50s lwts who might try to follow in my footsteps might be Mike VB, Rocket Roy, Mike Caviston, Graham Watt, and Paul Siebach.

Follow in your footsteps? Follow what exactly? Follow getting slower consistent with other age group rowers around 60 years old? Is that what you mean? Because that's all you've done: get slower at a rate that mirrors your falling aerobic capacity and diminishing musculoskeletal capabilities. You can't help it, you're just getting older. The longer you put off a lwt 2k the less chance you have of getting close to Bailey's 6:42.

You've done nothing unprecedented don't foget Prof, you hold no WRs. You are no trailblazer, except in the art of being a total and utter obnoxious specimen.

[ranger]

Points 2, 3 and 4 are beyond you.

Nope.

Been there, done that---many times, for point 4.

My 1Kr24 @ 1:38, etc., including my sub-6:30 2K @ 12 SPI, shows that point 2 is taken care of, too.

And I now row well at low drag (119 df.).

That's most of the battle for point 3, although it appears that I still have some work to do in order to get fully used to the high ratios and therefore long recovery periods involved in efficient rowing.

I have now mastered the basic mechanics of the task, though.

ranger

[ranger]

Follow in your footsteps? Follow what exactly?

The training you need to do during your 50s to pull a lwt 6:16 at 60.

(1) You need to demonstrate exceptional physical capacities and maintain those physical capacities at the highest level for the whole decade.

(2) You need to develop sufficient effectiveness to get the job done.

(3) You need to develop sufficient efficiency to get the job done.

(4) You need to sharpen and race, at weight, with (1)-(3) all in place.

I am just finishing up (3).

Then I will move on to (4).

ranger

[ranger]

you hold no WRs

True.

The _starting point_ of my present training was my three WR rows in 2003: 6:30, 6:29, 6:28.

Since then, I have been training.

My goal is a lwt 6:16 at 60.

ranger