Ranger's training thread

leadville · Post by **leadville** » March 11th, 2011, 4:40 pm

rangerboy - first time you post a screen shot of an entire work out,

YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 11th, 2011, 5:04 pm

leadville wrote:rangerboy - first time you post a screen shot of an entire work out,

YOU GET A GOLD STAR!

Yea, when I rip off that 1:44/17.3K for 60min, it's gonna create quite a stir.

RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 60 minutes | Men's | Lightweight | All Ages | Current 2011 Season

1 Chris Kemp 21 Evans GA USA 16587 IND I
2 Gregory Cook 41 Bainbridge Island WA USA 16550 C2Log I
3 Bryan Pape 24 Bridgeport CT USA 16537 IND I
4 Conny Johansson 38 Stockholm, Hässelby Rote 87 RK SWE 16422 IND I
5 xavier MAUNOIR 45 BOURDEAU CHAMBERY FRA 16380 IND I
6 Sam Cunningham 24 Conshohocken PA USA 16377 C2Log I
7 Bruno Mehech 22 Los Angeles CA USA 16212 IND I
8 Henry Clark 20 New Rochelle DC USA 16191 IND I
8 Jeff Rogers 17 Middletown DE USA 16191 IND I
10 Edward Rossotti 39 Washington DC USA 16177 IND I

ranger

snowleopard · Post by **snowleopard** » March 11th, 2011, 5:19 pm

ranger wrote:I could have been a _great_ gymnast.

No, you couldn't.

You couldn't recognise or eliminate the head dip in your rowing stroke in eight years so the chance of you knowing the relative positions of your arse and your elbows is zero or less.

And no you weren't on skates before you could walk. Standing up unaided on grippy surfaces comes before walking. Standing up unaided on frictionless surfaces is the next step.

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 11th, 2011, 5:31 pm

[removed]

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 11th, 2011, 5:35 pm

snowleopard wrote: no you weren't on skates before you could walk. Standing up unaided on grippy surfaces comes before walking. Standing up unaided on frictionless surfaces is the next step.

I had double bladed skates.

My parents held my hands--on both sides.

Nice!

I started competing when I was six years old.

ranger

leadville · Post by **leadville** » March 11th, 2011, 5:59 pm

ranger wrote:
leadville wrote:rangerboy - first time you post a screen shot of an entire work out,

YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Yea, when I rip off that 1:44/17.3K for 60min, it's gonna create quite a stir.

RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 60 minutes | Men's | Lightweight | All Ages | Current 2011 Season

1 Chris Kemp 21 Evans GA USA 16587 IND I
2 Gregory Cook 41 Bainbridge Island WA USA 16550 C2Log I
3 Bryan Pape 24 Bridgeport CT USA 16537 IND I
4 Conny Johansson 38 Stockholm, Hässelby Rote 87 RK SWE 16422 IND I
5 xavier MAUNOIR 45 BOURDEAU CHAMBERY FRA 16380 IND I
6 Sam Cunningham 24 Conshohocken PA USA 16377 C2Log I
7 Bruno Mehech 22 Los Angeles CA USA 16212 IND I
8 Henry Clark 20 New Rochelle DC USA 16191 IND I
8 Jeff Rogers 17 Middletown DE USA 16191 IND I
10 Edward Rossotti 39 Washington DC USA 16177 IND I

ranger

that'll be about the same time Scott Walker joins AFSCME...

atklein90 · Post by **atklein90** » March 11th, 2011, 8:25 pm

ranger wrote:
leadville wrote:rangerboy - first time you post a screen shot of an entire work out,

YOU GET A GOLD STAR!
Yea, when I rip off that 1:44/17.3K for 60min, it's gonna create quite a stir.

RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 60 minutes | Men's | Lightweight | All Ages | Current 2011 Season

1 Chris Kemp 21 Evans GA USA 16587 IND I
2 Gregory Cook 41 Bainbridge Island WA USA 16550 C2Log I
3 Bryan Pape 24 Bridgeport CT USA 16537 IND I
4 Conny Johansson 38 Stockholm, Hässelby Rote 87 RK SWE 16422 IND I
5 xavier MAUNOIR 45 BOURDEAU CHAMBERY FRA 16380 IND I
6 Sam Cunningham 24 Conshohocken PA USA 16377 C2Log I
7 Bruno Mehech 22 Los Angeles CA USA 16212 IND I
8 Henry Clark 20 New Rochelle DC USA 16191 IND I
8 Jeff Rogers 17 Middletown DE USA 16191 IND I
10 Edward Rossotti 39 Washington DC USA 16177 IND I

ranger

Huh. You're name isn't on the list. Probably because you are not capable of rowing 60 minutes straight. You can't row 60 minutes like shit, much less "well" per your definition...

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 12th, 2011, 3:59 am

atklein90 wrote:Huh. You're name isn't on the list. Probably because you are not capable of rowing 60 minutes straight. You can't row 60 minutes like shit, much less "well" per your definition...

Well, I've done 1:48/16.7K for 60min--when I was 52 years old.

I am only 5'11", 165 lbs.

How about you?

On the other hand, that 60min pb was rowing poorly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.).

After eight long years of work on technique and stroking power, I am now _much_ better than that.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.).

So it will indeed be interesting to see what I can do for 60min with this more effective and efficient technique.

Rowing is significantly skeletal-motor and technical.

When I pulled 16.7K for 60min I was a complete novice.

I didn't know how to row, much less row well.

I just jammed the drag up to max, jerked the chain with my upper body, dragging my legs behind, and revved up the rate to get pace, rushing the slide, rushing the slide.

My target now is 1:44/17.3K for 60min.

I'll now rate 27 spm @ 119 df., rowing beautifully.

DANISH LIGHTWEIGHT RACING STROKE

I'll do it in a gorgeously relaxed 3.5-to-1 ratio.

How about you?

No 60s lwt has ever pulled even 1:52/16K for 60min, so my target is pretty ambitious, no?

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 12th, 2011, 4:07 am

If you can rate 27 spm 60min, at "double the d, add 3," you can rate 36 spm for 2K.

If you can hold your technique together for both, and your technique is good enough to get you 12 SPI, you will row 1:44/17.3K for 60min and 1:34/6:16 for 2K.

Perfect.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 12th, 2011, 4:12 am

The best 55s/60s lightweights do indeed rate 27 spm for 60min and 36 spm for 2K.

But their technique is only good enough to get them 9 SPI.

So they pull 1:52/16K for 60min and 1:42/6:48 for 2K.

They have lost 1/4 of their youthful stroking power.

3 SPI

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 12th, 2011, 4:15 am

I haven't lost _any_ of my youthful stroking power.

Now that I have learned to row well at low drag (119 df.), I stroke along like Stephansen and the other great Danish lightweights, such as Eskild E.

For my age (60 years old), my effectiveness and efficiency is sky-high.

Unprecedented stuff.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 12th, 2011, 5:41 am

If you are fit, skilled, and just rowing naturally, 10 MPS rowing is top-end UT1 rowing at your natural stroking power.

And sure enough, today, in my distance rowing, my rates started floating up from 27 spm, to 28 spm, to 29 spm, and then to 30 spm.

Pulling 12 SPI, as I do in this distance rowing, 30 spm is 1:39, and yep, this is right around 10 MPS.

1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI) is 10 MPS.

1:39 is my 5K target.

So it looks as though I will row 5K right at 10 MPS.

PaulS is right.

10 MPS is really smooth stuff.

With my little lightweight legs, at 119 df. pulling 12 SPI @ 30 spm, I am in a _very_ comfortable, elegant 3-to-1 ratio.

4-beat measure.

One beat for the drive.

Three beats for the recovery.

Arm pull on the downbeats.

Turn up the music.

Rock on!

There's my Head of the Charles stroke!

Can't wait to get back OTW and try it out.

I'll work with it OTErg for a month and a half or so.

Then I will give it a go in the Fluid.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 12th, 2011, 5:58 am

In his prime, I suspect that Eskild E. did his 18K 60min rows at 10 MPS, 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI).

ranger

mrfit · Post by **mrfit** » March 12th, 2011, 7:35 am

Sorry everyone for not posting yesterday's summary of the ranger-go-round. I was rather taken by all the news around Japan and did not pay much attention to the thread in my spare time.

The posting day started off at 2:39am in Ann Arbor with a prediction of 1:44 for the hour. Fitness is reported to be sky high and work on technique is reported to be complete but when this row will be attempted is unknown. When asked, ranger replied "Beats me". This was followed up by Ranger reporteing that attempts that this would be rather counter productitive at this point until he is habituated to his new technique. A bit later ranger noodled on why 27 spm is so ideal and thought biorhythms might explain it. Then it dawned on him to report that actually:

"Before the end of the indoor rowing season in April, I think I'll pull 27 spm/base pace/1:44/11.5 SPI for a HM."

This lowers the SPI demands, extends the time well past an hour and puts a time frame on his performances. For many readers this stirred some interest and before long the ranger-go-round was humming along with about 8 riders yesterday. It spun around and around. 13 SPI was noted as missing in his new goal and rangers reply was that this was only true for "full strokes".

At 5:27am, out of the blue, ranger predicted MIke VB will get worse and worse.

Ranger had some tangent about skating with Bonnie Blair and how his parents used to hold both hands when he learned to skate. Ranger made an observation that rowing well is much like tumbling in the demands it places on muscular-skeletal development. Then it seemed to make sense to ranger that he could have therefore been a great tumbler. (however the converse is not true according to ranger. Great gymnasts are too small).

Readers were again invited to test themselves with this protocol:

(1) 50 jackknives

(2) 25 extension press ups

(3) 30 pull ups

No one reported their results.

==============================================

ranger · Post by **ranger** » March 12th, 2011, 8:43 am

mrfit wrote:13 SPI was noted as missing in his new goal and rangers reply was that this was only true for "full strokes"

Sure.

Or for training.

When I race (against the clock, trying to minimize time over distance rowed), I'll trade a bit of rate for pace.

I'll race at 12 SPI.

I still like the technical discipline of training at 13 SPI, though.

Training is an opportunity to get better.

It isn't a race.

ranger

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