Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

27 spm seems to be a popular rate for a 60min trial.

I remember that this is what Zrower rated for 60min.

PaulS also has his rowers rate 27 spm when they row for 60min.

Perhaps this has something to do with ratios and biorhythms, given normal drag factors (e.g., 120 df.).

If everyone rates about 27 spm for 60min, differences in scores in the ervent are due entirely to stroking power (SPI), the work done per stroke, effectiveness and efficiency, given physical capacity.

When I just relax and row for long distances these days, I seem to be settling into this same 27 spm.

Base Pace

The only freaky thing, I guess, is the my combination of age, weight, and stroking power when I am rating 27 spm.

PaulS has his rowers shoot for 10 MPS, pulling on the zeros.

At 27 spm, 10 MPS is 1:51 pace--9.5 SPI.

When I relax and rate 27 spm, I pull 1:44--11.5 SPI.

Before the end of the indoor rowing season in April, I think I'll pull 27 spm/base pace/1:44/11.5 SPI for a HM.

I'll slow down to 1:48 @ 24 spm for a FM.

That's also 11.5 SPI.

Rowing at low drag (119 df.), what is so new to me is the _massive_ recovery times at these pretty substantial rates.

Pulling 1:44 @ 27 spm at 119 df., I am in a 3.5-to-1 ratio.

.5 seconds for the drive.

1.72 seconds for the recovery.

I have to force myself to _wait_ at the catch in order to keep the rate down.

It has taken a while, but I seem to be learning how to make the most of these long rest periods between drives.

Relax.

Breathe.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/breathe

Let the wheel spin.

Let the boat run.

ranger

[macroth]

When I just relax and row for long distances these days...

What's a long distance for you these days? Still taking breaks every 1500m or so?

11.5 SPI.

11.5 SPI

11.5 SPI.

Gee, no more talk of 13 SPI, not even 12. We're now down to 11.5 SPI. Bettre be careful, you're getting closer and closer to your actual potential.

Let the wheel spin.

Let the boat run.

This again? You should only take a stroke every minute or so, REALLY let the boat run.

[ranger]

Gee, no more talk of 13 SPI, not even 12. We're now down to 11.5 SPI. Better be careful, you're getting closer and closer to your actual potential.

Sure, when I take a full stroke, I pull 13 SPI.

No reason to do this, though, if I am in a 3.5-to-1 ratio and rating 27 spm.

So I just lighten up and save energy.

If I pull 1:44 for 60min, I'll best the 50s _heavyweight_ WR for 60min by two seconds per 500m, even though I am a 60s lightweight.

I'll equal the (official) Open lightweight WR (17.3K).

Yea.

I guess I have to face it.

My potential is pretty limited.

ranger

[Citroen]

Gee, no more talk of 13 SPI, not even 12. We're now down to 11.5 SPI. Better be careful, you're getting closer and closer to your actual potential.

Sure, when I take a full stroke, I pull 13 SPI.

Have we had today's stroke yet?

[ranger]

Gee, no more talk of 13 SPI, not even 12. We're now down to 11.5 SPI. Better be careful, you're getting closer and closer to your actual potential.

Sure, when I take a full stroke, I pull 13 SPI.

Have we had today's stroke yet?

60min, 1:44 @ 27 spm (11.5 SPI), is 1620 strokes.

10.7 MPS

Compared to those who pull 10 MPS at 27 spm, I go about 3/4 of a mile farther in 60min.

A couple of feet farther on each stroke.

A boat length every 13 strokes.

Over the hour as a whole, 125 boat lengths.

No 60s lightweight has ever pulled 16K for 60min.

ranger

[macroth]

[

Compared to those who pull 10 MPS at 27 spm, I go about 3/4 of a mile farther in 60min.

The first step would be to actually row 60 minutes without a break. Heck, just 5K would be a gigantic step forward for you.

[ranger]

[

Compared to those who pull 10 MPS at 27 spm, I go about 3/4 of a mile farther in 60min.

The first step would be to actually row 60 minutes without a break. Heck, just 5K would be a gigantic step forward for you.

Naw.

There is no virtue whatsoever in rowing badly and slowly, but continuously, over long distances.

That this is the best way to train for rowing is just an embarrassingly absurd myth, perpetuated, I assume, to sooth the fragile egos of those who are unable and/or unwilling to train effectively/productively.

Leave no child behind.

If you spend all of your training time rowing badly and slowly, but continuously, over long distances, you just train yourself to be--permanently--bad and slow.

ranger

[macroth]

The first step would be to actually row 60 minutes without a break. Heck, just 5K would be a gigantic step forward for you.

Naw.

There is no virtue whatsoever in rowing badly and slowly, but continuously, over long distances.

I take this as a confirmation that you can't even erg 5K (17:30) at your purported 60' pace. That's a pretty huge gap (over 3.5 times longer than your current ability). How much time do you think it will take you to bridge that gap, if you ever can?

[ranger]

I take this as a confirmation that you can't even erg 5K (17:30) at your purported 60' pace. That's a pretty huge gap (over 3.5 times longer than your current ability). How much time do you think it will take you to bridge that gap, if you ever can?

I am not training my fitness.

I am just getting used to a new technique.

My fitness is maximal.

I _can't_ improve it.

Getting used to a new, more efficient and effective, rowing technique takes some time, sure.

How long?

Beats me.

But it has nothing to do with fitness.

Getting used to relaxing, slowing down, breathing, letting the wheel spin, etc., is a pretty different exercise than training your fitness because you have been sitting on your ass for 40 years and therefore gasp for air with a pounding heart when you walk up some stairs.

If I can master the activity fully and relax with it, I can work for a couple of hours at 300 watts.

Given my age, my fitness is sky-high.

ranger

[macroth]

I take this as a confirmation that you can't even erg 5K (17:30) at your purported 60' pace. That's a pretty huge gap (over 3.5 times longer than your current ability). How much time do you think it will take you to bridge that gap, if you ever can?

I am not training my fitness.

I am just getting used to a new technique.

My fitness is maximal.

I _can't_ improve it.

Getting used to a new technique takes some time, sure.

How long?

Beats me.

But it has nothing to do with fitness.

ranger

I didn't mention fitness, just how long you are able to keep up your 60' target pace.

But since you bring it up, right now, you can't row 15 minutes (10? 5?) straight, 1:44@27 spm. Why is that? If it's not a question of fitness (let's hope not, since yours is maximal and can't be improved), is it a mental issue, a social issue, a metaphysical issue?

Technical, you say? Why does your technique break down after a few k's, if not for physical reasons (fatigue)? How do you propose to improve your technique --which you've honed over the last 8 years, to say nothing of the last 8 months, to they point where you currently row well, solid, smooth, relaxed, unprecendented and so on-- so that you can row 4 times longer than you currently can at a given speed?

[Citroen]

Sure, when I take a full stroke, I pull 13 SPI.

Have we had today's stroke yet?

60min, 1:44 @ 27 spm (11.5 SPI), is 1620 strokes.

10.7 MPS

Compared to those who pull 10 MPS at 27 spm, I go about 3/4 of a mile farther in 60min.

A couple of feet farther on each stroke.

A boat length every 13 strokes.

Over the hour as a whole, 125 boat lengths.

No 60s lightweight has ever pulled 16K for 60min.

ranger

I'll take that load of bollocks to mean "NO".

Where's the 5K? Where's the 10K? Where's the FM? Where's the 8*500? Where's the 20*500? Not done those yet have you, because you quite simply can't get under seven minutes for 2K (complete with a bunch of breaks).

You are the laughing stock. You are a welcher.

[ranger]

Amazingly, given his OTW accomplishments, and therefore effective training there, Mike VB is unwilling to train effectively on the erg.

So that's all she wrote.

On the erg, he will just get worse and worse.

Go figure.

ranger

[ranger]

You are the laughing stock.

Sure, laughter is our major defense mechanism against things that frighten/frustrate us, etc.

So it goes.

See no evil.

Hear no evil.

ranger

[PaulH]

Getting used to a new, more efficient and effective, rowing technique takes some time, sure.

How long?

Beats me.

So why do you keep predicting what you're going to achieve in the next 7 weeks?

[macroth]

Mike VB

has nothing to do with your training.

Getting back to your fitness level, which you claim to be ever so youthful and whatnot, do you think that E. Ebbesen, hung over, jet-lagged, having skipped breakfast and without warming up, would ever pull a 2K over 7:00?

Do you think you have the same fitness level as he does?
If not, do you think that your technique is superior to his (after all, he only races at 11 spi)?

He recently pulled 6:15, you're aiming for 6:16 (just a few distance trials away from it, in fact), so I assume this is a valid comparison.


I also found this nugget, which made me laugh after your recent hissy fit about "identical strokes". Still won't post that 500m video?

So, facts and individual performances are a better guide to training than ideals?

Yes, I know you folks think that.

How wrong it is.

How wrong it is.

For everything you prepare for in life, not just rowing.