Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

You really are as dumb as a doorknob

No need for speech, especially insulting speech of this sort.

Just a need for action.

So do it.

Then we can get this thread off of "pause," and the show can go on.

ranger

[hjs]

So thx, finaly "proof" and now you spoil it

Macroth hasn't spoiled anything.

He just needs to find a camera and an erg and show us how it is done.

That will be easy.

Then I'll post my botched counterpart.

And macroth will get kudos from the forum, all around.

ranger

Why, we know what he can. He currently is a 6.25 ish 2k erger. That's what he did in his last race.

You are a 7.02 erger at the moment, If you have proof for something else show it fat boy.

[ranger]

While we're waiting for macroth, why don't you explain why a variable rate isn't less efficient than a constant rate?

All of our most natural and restful activities involve an alternation of effort and relaxation, beat and off-beat, peak and valley, anticipation and arrival, theme and variation.

An exactly uniform flow of energy is not the norm is any biological or psychological process.

If it were, the natural world, our mind and body included, would not be rhythmic but mechanistic, not a mind and body, but a motor.

The PM4 is exactly a motor, or at least, an electronic "device."

It doesn't have anything to do with human activity.

What it measures is entirely artificial, imposed externally and arbitrarily on the biological and psychological processes that it is supposedly "measuring."

ranger

[PaulH]

All of our most natural and restful activities involve an alternation of effort and relaxation, beat and off-beat, peak and valley, anticipation and arrival, theme and variation.

And rowing is all of those things (apart from that last pairing, perhaps), *between* strokes. None of those things makes a difference to consecutive strokes however, where the goal remains to make them as consistent as possible to help your rowing be as efficient as possible.

[ranger]

Why, we know what he can. He currently is a 6.25 ish 2k erger.

Sure.

But you can row 6:25 without making all of your strokes identical.

Macroth seems to think that you can't, or at least, shouldn't, and implies strongly, given his harsh language and diapproving attitude, that he doesn't.

That would be interesting to see.

Given that he can row 6:25, a 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI), should be an easy exercise.

And since he has long ago eliminated varying rates and paces from his rowing, he should do it as a matter of course, stroke after stroke, for 50 strokes, right on that rate and pace target.

As I said, I'll certainly believe it if I see it, but at this point, I haven't seen it.

I am happy to admit that _I_ don't do that when I row.

It comes much more naturally, and therefore easily and efficiently, to me to admit slight variations, this way and that, from stroke to stroke, although, sure, the resulting pace and rate stays pretty constant overall.

ranger

[ranger]

All of our most natural and restful activities involve an alternation of effort and relaxation, beat and off-beat, peak and valley, anticipation and arrival, theme and variation.

And rowing is all of those things (apart from that last pairing, perhaps), *between* strokes. None of those things makes a difference to consecutive strokes however, where the goal remains to make them as consistent as possible to help your rowing be as efficient as possible.

You just assume the consequent.

_Why_ is keeping each stroke cycle exactly constant being as efficient as possible?

I understand why a high ratio, proper leverage, good timing, etc., aid effectiveness and efficiency.

These considerations seem pretty different from exact repetition, though.

I would guess that if they were measured closely, even the most unconsciously automatic of our alternating biological processes (heart beat, breathing, gait, swallowing, blinking, nodding, waving, shivering, etc.) don't involve exact repetition.

The natural world is not a motor.

ranger

[mikvan52]

So...
I queue up the "joke" thread and what do I get?????
The choke thread

Cureton, our ersatz performer, has headed to the stands to watch instead of row, hot dog in hand, mustard on his tie and his face.

Not to worry. My spies pirated a copy of his efforts this morning

"Nice."

Click here
~ brought to you courtesy of Yuki-leaks

Don't worry Rich, we'd all give you "a big hug" too if you summoned some bravery and posted the IND_V.

[ranger]

Don't worry Rich, we'd all give you "a big hug" too if you summoned some bravery and posted the IND_V.

I have the video of my 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI), which, on the average, is perfect stroking (13 SPI) at race pace, although my stroke does indeed vary, here and there, from stroke to stroke, in rate and pace, around this norm.

I am just waiting on macroth to show me how it _should_ be done.

Then I'll post my sloppy, inefficient counterpart.

ranger

[macroth]

Hands up, anybody who thinks this video shows "amazingly consistent rowing" over 15 strokes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcF3JBt7TP4
2 strokes to get going, then 1:34@31spm, 1:32@33, 1:34@30, 1:35@31, 1:35@31, 1:35@31, 1:35@32, 1:33@33, 1:33@32, 1:34@34, 1:34@32, 1:36@31, 1:34@32, 1:33@35, 1:33@34, stop.

Hands up, anybody who has difficulty reading and understanding the following statements.

There's identical strokes, and then there's only being able to string together 2 or 3. If you have a problem understanding these concepts, take another look at your BIRC stroke data, then at all the other medalists in the different categories.

You really are as dumb as a doorknob, aren't you? Do you think I came up with the idea that pace fluctuations are inefficient? Do you also think that anyone who defends this concept needs to show you a few dozen identical strokes of his own for the concept to be valid? Your father and your brother have conducted dozens of studies on human performance. Were they ever part of the testing groups? Did they ever have to replicate the results on themselves before being allowed to publish?

More power is required to average 1:34/500m if you pull strokes at 1:36 and 1:32 than if you row all your strokes at 1:34. This is an ideal to strive for, and it shouldn't be that hard to do much better than what you showed on your 17-stroke video, if it is indeed a pace and rate you're comfortable with ("solid and relaxed", remember?).

The longer you row, the faster your target pace and the greater the range of actual paces, the more these differences will matter. Then there is the issue of pacing your race, energy pathways, psychology, etc.

Here I was, getting all excited that this thread was on indefinite "pause" until I would post a video to ranger's liking, but in fact ranger is still blabbing on. Where's my remote control?

[mikvan52]

My favorite ranger-poetry

You just assume the consequent.

(Which is) _Why_ (I keep) each (barf) cycle exactly constant (.)

I understand why a high ratio, proper leverage, good timing, etc., aid effectiveness and efficiency.

(Just watch me choke... over, & over, & over, & over. All over everyone)

(cue the great words of the inscrutable one:)

The natural world is not a motor.

ranger

Let natural-man do his thing folks..
This sure beats South Park!

Rich: Please tell us the next thing you won't ever do.

[mikvan52]

Don't worry Rich, we'd all give you "a big hug" too if you summoned some bravery and posted the IND_V.

I have the video of my 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI), which, on the average, is perfect stroking (13 SPI) at race pace, although my stroke does indeed vary, here and there, from stroke to stroke, in rate and pace, around this norm.

I am just waiting on macroth to show me how it _should_ be done.

Then I'll post my sloppy, inefficient counterpart.

ranger

tell us again.

Why wait?
just copy down the stats from the PM4....
oh great trickster!!!

Click here
~ brought to you courtesy of Yuki-leaks

[mikvan52]

It's tantrum-time in the Cureton household this morning;

I have the video

"... and none of you are ever going to see it!"

[PaulH]

All of our most natural and restful activities involve an alternation of effort and relaxation, beat and off-beat, peak and valley, anticipation and arrival, theme and variation.

And rowing is all of those things (apart from that last pairing, perhaps), *between* strokes. None of those things makes a difference to consecutive strokes however, where the goal remains to make them as consistent as possible to help your rowing be as efficient as possible.

You just assume the consequent.

_Why_ is keeping each stroke cycle exactly constant being as efficient as possible?

I understand why a high ratio, proper leverage, good timing, etc., aid effectiveness and efficiency.

These considerations seem pretty different from exact repetition, though.

I would guess that if they were measured closely, even the most unconsciously automatic of our alternating biological processes (heart beat, breathing, gait, swallowing, blinking, nodding, waving, shivering, etc.) don't involve exact repetition.

The natural world is not a motor.

ranger

It's already been explained to you - for a given speed the minimum number of watts required is generated by keeping a constant pace. As you speed up and slow down around that speed you have to put out more watts in total. Hence a consistent pace is a beneficial target, recognizing of course that it's hard to hit every time.

[KevJGK]

Hands up, anybody who thinks this video shows "amazingly consistent rowing" over 15 strokes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcF3JBt7TP4
2 strokes to get going, then 1:34@31spm, 1:32@33, 1:34@30, 1:35@31, 1:35@31, 1:35@31, 1:35@32, 1:33@33, 1:33@32, 1:34@34, 1:34@32, 1:36@31, 1:34@32, 1:33@35, 1:33@34, stop.

I see beginners in the gym with more consistency than that.

And no – I’m NOT going to start videoing them.

It's already been explained to you - for a given speed the minimum number of watts required is generated by keeping a constant pace. As you speed up and slow down around that speed you have to put out more watts in total. Hence a consistent pace is a beneficial target, recognizing of course that it's hard to hit every time.

He knows that Paul.

He's just being an asshole.

[hjs]

Why, we know what he can. He currently is a 6.25 ish 2k erger.

Sure.

But you can row 6:25 without making all of your strokes identical.

ranger

No, it is impossible to make all the strokes alike, nobody, not even the 5.4x.x rowers can do a first pull at 1.36 and keep it steady from there.

Ratingwise it would be different, If I row a 2k my rating is more or less even, apart from the start and sprint, the 500/1500 meter is very evenly paced/rated.

What you showed yesterday is thise 17 strokes is that you had to work hard to maintain that pace, the pace and rating where all over the place.

If I do work like that it looks a lot more alike, But then again I also don't train like you RWB style, so I am not used to rowing above my standard and having to stop every minute orso.