Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

O.K.

I've got the video of my 500, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI, 10 MPS).

So, now I am just waiting on macroth's.

After he posts his video and we have time to examine it closely and discuss it thoroughly, as he likes to do, I'll post mine.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, 50 spm seems a bit too high to shoot for in a 500m.

45 spm seems more controlled, I think, although I will have to pull harder (13 SPI rather than 12 SPI) to get the same pace.

It looks like I can do it, though.

On the other hand, it might take quite a bit of practice to get 63 perfect (13 SPI) strokes at 45 spm.

I should probably work on it a bit every day.

The drive of the stroke, being 13 SPI, looks just like the drive of my stroke when I am pulling 1:34 @ 32 spm, although at 45 spm I am now in a 1.6-to-1 ratio ("Golden Section"), .5 seconds for the drive, .8 seconds for the recovery.



Interestingly, 63 strokes is just number of strokes that Mike VB needed to pull 1:32 @ 42 spm (10.7 SPI).

ranger

[snowleopard]

So, now I am just waiting on macroth's.

This is "ranger's training thread", not macroth's. You are of course lying. You simply don't have that 500 to show.

Incidentally, do I understand correctly that you: a) rowed for two hours, accumulating a large amount of blood lactate; and b) then rowed for 500m. And do I understand that you are offering 200m of this 500m as evidence of your AT threshold?

[Citroen]

Photo taken at 2011-03-08 03:28:04, amazing. Our hero has rowed 351m in 1:42 that's an avg pace of 2:25.3

Of course, at half past three in the morning he should be in bed sleeping. But the sad b'stard prefers to paddle around in his basement.

[ranger]

This is "ranger's training thread", not macroth's.

Indeed it is.

But the discussion here, I hope, is a conversation.

Macroth is critical of the variation in my rating and pacing when I am doing 1:34 @ 32 spm.

I don't care about the variation at all.

If he is critical of the variation, because he thinks that it is inefficient, then he must have worked on eliminating this variaiton from his rowing, don't you think?

So let's see it.

When he shows me how its done without variation in pace and rate, I'll show him another instance of my pathetic wavering.

In fact, I think that if macroth can't do the 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm, at least right off, then he should continue to work on it until he can.

When he can, and posts a video to prove it, I'll post my absurdly inefficient counterpart.

Then, we can all praise macroth for his accomplishment and I will have good evidence of how far I still need to go to get it right.

ranger

[macroth]

This is "ranger's training thread", not macroth's.

Indeed it is.

But the discussion here, I hope, is a conversation.

Macroth is critical of the variation in my rating and pacing when I am doing 1:34 @ 32 spm.

I don't care about the variation at all.

If he is critical of the variation, because he thinks that it is inefficient, then he must have worked on eliminating this variaiton from his rowing, don't you think?

So let's see it.

When he shows me how its done without variation in pace and rate, I'll show him another instance of my pathetic wavering.

In fact, I think that if macroth can't do the 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm, at least right off, then he should continue to work on it until he can.

When he can, and posts a video to prove it, I'll post my absurdly inefficient counterpart.

Then, we can all praise macroth for his accomplishment and I will have good evidence of how far I still need to go to get it right.

ranger

You really are as dumb as a doorknob, aren't you? Do you think I came up with the idea that pace fluctuations are inefficient? Do you also think that anyone who defends this concept needs to show you a few dozen identical strokes of his own for the concept to be valid? Your father and your brother have conducted dozens of studies on human performance. Were they ever part of the testing groups? Did they ever have to replicate the results on themselves before being allowed to publish?

Here's a simple demonstration that even you can understand, I hope:
1:36 pace is 395.6 watts; 1:34 pace is 421.39 W; 1:32 is 449.47 W. Average of 1:36 and 1:32 wattage is 422.535. 422.5>421.4. More power is required to average 1:34/500m if you pull strokes at 1:36 and 1:32 than if you row all your strokes at 1:34. This is an ideal to strive for, and it shouldn't be that hard to do much better than what you showed on your 17-stroke video, if it is indeed a pace and rate you're comfortable with ("solid and relaxed", remember?).

The longer you row, the faster your target pace and the greater the range of actual paces, the more these differences will matter. Then there is the issue of pacing your race, energy pathways, psychology, etc.



But getting back to the 500m you did this morning, you've said you would post a screenshot several times, without my name ever coming up until this morning. Now you've actually done the 500m, 1:34@32spm average, at a heart rate barely over AT, haven't you? You've proven your point to the entire world. You're on the brink of pulling a 6:16 2k!!! But you won't post the video because of me? Why even bother posting another ridiculous single-stroke picture instead?

Guess what: I don't have access to a camera to bring to the gym, or even a PM4 on a working erg. Sorry everyone, it's all my fault that ranger can't post a video of his training.

[ranger]

I don't have access to a camera to bring to the gym, or even a PM4 on a working erg.

What?

Then find one.

No one here is in a hurry.

We will all be happy to wait until you can get it together.

Everyone has a digital camera these days, especially people your age.

Are you also so isolated that you don't know anyone?

Good ergs are a dime and dozen. They are all over the place.

When you have the digital camera, just find one and take the shot.

We'll be impressed, and you'll get kudos all around.

ranger

[ranger]

Why even bother posting another ridiculous single-stroke picture

If your top rate for 500m is 45 spm and you can't pull one stroke, 1:24 @ 45 spm (13 SPI), it is doubtful that you can't pull 63 strokes.

No?

ranger

[ranger]

I think a good way to train for 500m, 1:24 @ 45 spm (13 SPI), would to do a lot of 1' rows, 1:24 @ 45 spm (13 SPI), concentrating on relaxation, consistency, and technique.

Then when these 1' rows get familar and comfortable, some sunny day, when you are feeling good, just thrash out the last 18 strokes in any way you can, pulling your guts out, screaming 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13,12,10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, YEA!



ranger

[hjs]

This is "ranger's training thread", not macroth's.

Indeed it is.

But the discussion here, I hope, is a conversation.

Macroth is critical of the variation in my rating and pacing when I am doing 1:34 @ 32 spm.

I don't care about the variation at all.

If he is critical of the variation, because he thinks that it is inefficient, then he must have worked on eliminating this variaiton from his rowing, don't you think?

So let's see it.

When he shows me how its done without variation in pace and rate, I'll show him another instance of my pathetic wavering.

In fact, I think that if macroth can't do the 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm, at least right off, then he should continue to work on it until he can.

When he can, and posts a video to prove it, I'll post my absurdly inefficient counterpart.

Then, we can all praise macroth for his accomplishment and I will have good evidence of how far I still need to go to get it right.

ranger

You really are as dumb as a doorknob, aren't you? Do you think I came up with the idea that pace fluctuations are inefficient? Do you also think that anyone who defends this concept needs to show you a few dozen identical strokes of his own for the concept to be valid? Your father and your brother have conducted dozens of studies on human performance. Were they ever part of the testing groups? Did they ever have to replicate the results on themselves before being allowed to publish?

Here's a simple demonstration that even you can understand, I hope:
1:36 pace is 395.6 watts; 1:34 pace is 421.39 W; 1:32 is 449.47 W. Average of 1:36 and 1:32 wattage is 422.535. 422.5>421.4. More power is required to average 1:34/500m if you pull strokes at 1:36 and 1:32 than if you row all your strokes at 1:34. This is an ideal to strive for, and it shouldn't be that hard to do much better than what you showed on your 17-stroke video, if it is indeed a pace and rate you're comfortable with ("solid and relaxed", remember?).

The longer you row, the faster your target pace and the greater the range of actual paces, the more these differences will matter. Then there is the issue of pacing your race, energy pathways, psychology, etc.



But getting back to the 500m you did this morning, you've said you would post a screenshot several times, without my name ever coming up until this morning. Now you've actually done the 500m, 1:34@32spm average, at a heart rate barely over AT, haven't you? You've proven your point to the entire world. You're on the brink of pulling a 6:16 2k!!! But you won't post the video because of me? Why even bother posting another ridiculous single-stroke picture instead?

Guess what: I don't have access to a camera to bring to the gym, or even a PM4 on a working erg. Sorry everyone, it's all my fault that ranger can't post a video of his training.

So thx, finaly "proof" and now you spoil it

[ranger]

So thx, finaly "proof" and now you spoil it

Macroth hasn't spoiled anything.

He just needs to find a camera and an erg and show us how it is done.

That will be easy.

Then I'll post my botched counterpart.

And macroth will get kudos from the forum, all around.

ranger

[ranger]

macroth--

When you shoot the video, remember to keep the PM4 on the force curve screen so we can see the perfect consistency of your stroking.

ranger

[PaulH]

While we're waiting for macroth, why don't you explain why a variable rate isn't less efficient than a constant rate?

[macroth]

And macroth will get kudos from the forum, all around.

What's this new obsession about me getting praise from the forum?

Is it because Mike VB got a few compliments (and some criticism, actually) for what he's been posting? Are your feelings hurt because I don't share your delusions about your training and performance? Don't be shy, post your video, I promise we'll lavish praise on you for your gorgeous force curve!

Don't you find it odd that you keep asking other people to post data, videos and pics of what YOU should be doing or claim to be doing, yet you never do?

[snowleopard]

Why even bother posting another ridiculous single-stroke picture

If your top rate for 500m is 45 spm and you can't pull one stroke, 1:24 @ 45 spm (13 SPI), it is doubtful that you can't pull 63 strokes.

No?

Sure, but your problem is the other 62

Incidentally, do I understand correctly that you: a) rowed for two hours, accumulating a large amount of blood lactate; and b) then rowed for 500m. And do I understand that you are offering 200m of this 500m as evidence of your AT threshold?