Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

2 strokes to get going, then 1:34@31spm, 1:32@33, 1:34@30, 1:35@31, 1:35@31, 1:35@31, 1:35@32, 1:33@33, 1:33@32, 1:34@34, 1:34@32, 1:36@31, 1:34@32, 1:33@35, 1:33@34, stop. Grand total of 17 strokes, only 2 of which were actually 1:34@32.

I don't care at all about slight fluctuations in rate and pace.

I care about fluctuations in technique, of which there are none.

Watch the force curve.

ranger

[ranger]

Sure technique matters. Your row 2006 row demonstrated that. Everyone patted you on the back for that row, you know. I'm not sure why you think you get the moon too.

Not sure what you mean by this.

"Deserve" the moon?

You can't hit the moon unless you shoot for it and earn it, as I have done for the last eight years.

Sure, if you earn it, you deserve it.

As far as I can tell, when I am fully trained up for it, I am right on track to pull a lwt 6:16 2K at 60.

My training as come along perfectly.

Dang.

I must have the best coach in the world.



ranger

[mikvan52]

Hey, Mike--

Try a max 500m @ 10MPS.

What is the best you can do?

ranger

You and I seem to speak different languages.

You: MPS
Me: Sustained rowing in different effort zones

You: watts / strokes per minute
Me: watts

You: don't show anything
Me: full disclosure

You: heavyweight
Me: lightweight

You: peak force
Me: Area under the curve

You: Podunk, Iowa
Me: Boston, Mass.

Will we ever parlez-vous in the same tongue?
Can you teach old dogs new tricks?

[macroth]

2 strokes to get going, then 1:34@31spm, 1:32@33, 1:34@30, 1:35@31, 1:35@31, 1:35@31, 1:35@32, 1:33@33, 1:33@32, 1:34@34, 1:34@32, 1:36@31, 1:34@32, 1:33@35, 1:33@34, stop. Grand total of 17 strokes, only 2 of which were actually 1:34@32.

I don't care at all about slight fluctuations in rate and pace.

I care about fluctuations in technique, of which there are none.

Watch the force curve.

ranger

You define good technique (rowing well) in terms of SPI, which is defined by rate and pace. Therefore fluctuations in rate and pace match fluctuations in technique. The force curves for each stroke fluctuated correspondingly.

More importantly, the energy expenditure in this set of 15 strokes was higher than if all strokes had been 1:34@32. You spend more catching up to your target pace (1:32, 1:33) than you save by slowing down (1:35, 1:36). This inefficiency is compounded over longer distances and at fast paces.

You should care more about fluctuations in rate and pace.

[mikvan52]

Hey, Mike--

Try a max 500m @ 10MPS.

What is the best you can do?

ranger

but to answer your question about MPS

My StrokeCoach timer records strokes:
Here's an effort from last summer:
8k /751 strokes... where it matters to me OTW:
8000/751 is 10.6 meters per stroke

What's your OTW MPS RIch over 8k?



Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:08 pm

Back in the Fluid... feels great!

Just putting in the meters with a focus on form.
Took it easy on the way home in order to save energy for work in the field (planting out raspberry canes)...

Upstream:
10:21 am

1k - 2:19 @ 20.0spm
2k - 2:16 @ 20.0
3k - 2:15 @ 20.0
4k - 2:15 @ 20.0
5k - 2:14 @ 20.0
6k - 2:15 @ 20.5
7k - 2:15 @ 22.0
8k - 2:13 @ 24.0 - 2:15.9 avg - 36:14.7 - 751 strokes


sorry this wasn't a max effort.
I'll look for another one if you ask nicely..

[ranger]

Is it any mystery why you only showed us 40 seconds worth? Your legs were already flooding with lactic acid and you were slipping off the pace only halfway through. I think that last stroke was at r34, it was getting tough already. And you're going to do 20x500 at that pace and rate huh? Best of luck Of course you could prove me wrong by posting a video of just one full 500. Of course you could really make me look stupid by posting a screenshot of an entire workout you claim to be doing.

Sure, I'll do all of these things, as I said.

I'll get a full 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI) tomorrow, if I can.

Then, slowly but surely, I will work up a full 8 x 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm.

Then, I will stretch this 8 x 500m to 20 x 500m.

No, 13 SPI is not hard for me to do at all.

Flooded with lactic acid with a HR of 155 bpm?

How?

155 bpm is middlin' UT1.

My anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm.

Sure, once I get to about 185 bpm, I will be in distress.

But as I mentioned, the goal with short TR intervals of this sort will be to avoid such distress entirely.

If I want to do 20 x 500m (3:30 rest), 1:34 @ 32 spm, I will need to keep my HR below 175 bpm at the end of each interval, and I will need to recover completely between each interval.

I think my fitness and skills are now up to it.

I suppose we'll soon see.

ranger

[ranger]

[removed]

[ranger]

As I say this, it should also be kept in mind that doing quality 500s (1:34 pace, etc., when WR 2K pace for my age and weight is 1:40.5) is _maximal_ technical discipline.

Given that I am a lightweight, 500s at 13 SPI and 10 MPS are technically perfect for a lightweight of any age.

They are done rowing well (13 SPI) and don't trade one bit of rate for pace (10 MPS).

This is maximally effective training, both physiologically and technically.

When I race, I will be free to trade some rate for pace, and probably will.

As I have mentioned, even though I will be doing at lot of training at 13 SPI, I will probably race at 12 SPI, 1:34 @ 35 spm.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

8000/751 is 10.6 meters per stroke
What's your OTW MPS RIch over 8k

Mike, that is awesome. People usually say you want at least one boat length between puddles, but that is almost three meters more than the length of a midweight Fluid.

[ranger]

What's your OTW MPS RIch over 8k?

Hard to say, given the ice on the Huron River.

My thermometer said below zero F. this morning.

Get back to me in June (or thereabouts) and I will be able to tell you.

Sure, 2:16 @ 20 spm is not that hard for me.

That's 7 SPI.

With that stroking power, 10 MPS comes along at 2:10 @ 23 spm.

Of course, although it sure is important, stroking power is not the only thing in rowing.

The other issue is rate.

Young lightweights can rate 38 spm for 2K.

What do you rate?

28 spm?

At 7 SPI, the difference is 10 seconds per 500m.

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

March 28, 2007: Well, I'll deliver a 3:04 2K tomorrow, 3/4 of it rowed at 28 spm.

March 28, 2007: I'll do the 1K tomorrow.

April 6, 2007: I think I will do 500m, 1:26 @ 35 spm (15.7 SPI) tomorrow.

April 7, 2007: Tomorrow, I'll pull 500m, 1:26 @ 35 spm (10MPS, 15.7 SPI)

April 9, 2007: O.K. I'll try a 500m at 40 spm tomorrow and we'll see. I should go 1:24 or so.

April 21, 2007: Tomorrow, I think I might try 500m, 1:26 @ 35 spm (again).

February 6, 2008: I'll get 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 1:34 done tomorrow in good order.

March 31, 2009: Michael van Beuren 56 Hartland, VT USA 5000 17:54.8 IND
Nice! I'll do one tomorrow.

March 5, 2010: I think I'll get a sub-6:30 2K tomorrow.

Jan 26, 2011: I'll see if I can get in 4 x 2K @ 28 spm tomorrow and Friday. That should tell me where I'm at [sic].

Feb 21, 2011: Have you done that 10K yet? 1:46 @ 23 spm (12.5 SPI)? I'll give it a try tomorrow morning.

March 7, 2011: I'll get a full 500m, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI) tomorrow, if I can.

[mrfit]

Sure technique matters. Your row 2006 row demonstrated that. Everyone patted you on the back for that row, you know. I'm not sure why you think you get the moon too.

Not sure what you mean by this.

"Deserve" the moon?

You can't hit the moon unless you shoot for it and earn it, as I have done for the last eight years.

Sure, if you earn it, you deserve it.

As far as I can tell, when I am fully trained up for it, I am right on track to pull a lwt 6:16 2K at 60.

My training as come along perfectly.

Dang.

I must have the best coach in the world.



ranger

Perhaps you're just confused. I never said "Deserved" I just said get.

I'm not sure you deserve anything, frankly. The woman who helped me at Staple's today had a terribly disfigured face from some virus or something. Face looked like swollen moldy bread. She deserves a nice face because she was so friendly.

[mikvan52]

Sure, 2:16 @ 20 spm(OTW) is not that hard for me.

Rich: Have you forgotten.. Not 2:16/20 spm for 100 meters ...for 8k w/o any breaks....

If I recall it: You don't ever go ove 2.5 k otw w/o having to turn the Windbagger around...
How would you know what you get for MPS over long distance..

You asked about full effort 500's anyway.. I'm still looking....

[ranger]

Sure, 2:16 @ 20 spm(OTW) is not that hard for me.

Rich: Have you forgotten.. Not 2:16/20 spm for 100 meters ...for 8k w/o any breaks....

If I recall it: You don't ever go ove 2.5 k otw w/o having to turn the Windbagger around...
How would you know what you get for MPS over long distance..

You asked about full effort 500's anyway.. I'm still looking....

No, I'll be at Door County from May to September this year, rowing on Lake Michigan.

No turning necessary (unless I get to Chicago or Green Bay).



My goal this summer is to put in 20K a day OTW.

I now have the skills to get it done.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Sure, 2:16 @ 20 spm(OTW) is not that hard for me.

Rich: Have you forgotten.. Not 2:16/20 spm for 100 meters ...for 8k w/o any breaks....

If I recall it: You don't ever go ove 2.5 k otw w/o having to turn the Windbagger around...
How would you know what you get for MPS over long distance..

You asked about full effort 500's anyway.. I'm still looking....

No, I'll be at Door County from May to September this year, rowing on Lake Michigan.

Will you take a break from "unfinished business"? Or, will you insist on erging first and then sculling?

Here an even 1k , close to all out.
My final was less than two hours later where I sculled another 1k in 3:40.18

I sculled conservatively in my qualifier, trying to stay in fine form and keeping the rate down:

7:53 am

200m - 1:48 pace @ 33 spm.............................. 0:43.3........23 strokes
400m - 1:51 pace @ 29 spm - 1:49.9 avg........ 1:27.9........45
600m - 1:53 pace @ 28 spm - 1:51.1................ 2:13.4.......66
800m - 1:54 pace @ 28.5 - 1:52.0...................... 2:59.3......88
1000 - 1:56 pace @ 28.5 - 1:52.9....................... 3:45.9......110

1000m/110 strokes = 9.1 MPS

What's your best 1k OTW or on the erg in the last 5 years?
Do you have them stored away for your own reference?... It might be helpful to keep a log.