Am I wasting my time?

[jvirnoche]

Hello,

So here's the deal. I've been rowing for just about 3 weeks now. I've been an athlete just about my whole life, played baseball in college, military afterward, etc.

In May of last year, I had major foot surgery for a heavy ligament/joint/bone trauma, and have 4 screws in my foot, which no longer allow me to run, although I tried, for a few weeks. I saw a guy at the gym on the rower, and promptly came home and did all the online research I could find, and found a lot of good technique videos.

The major reason I've been rowing is for weight loss and muscle tone. I've logged about 105k meters in about 3 weeks, and the first week I didn't even know I could log them, so really that's about 105k in 2 weeks. I started off with the Interactive weight loss program, and quickly got bored, and found a 24 workout log book, on this website, so I started on that instead. After 3 weeks, I have stayed the same weight give or take 5lbs, my weight fluctuates about that much between morning and night.

I'm 6'7" 255-260lbs, and holding steady, as I said I've been concentrating on the high intensity work outs, instead of the weight loss work outs, is this the reason I've just stagnated? Would I see better/more results with the weight loss program? I guess the reasoning behind the HIT is because I'm competitive, highly competitive and I feel like those give me competitive gains, but I figured they would give me weight loss gains as well.

What should I focus on?

[hjs]

You have a great base build for erging. Losing weight is not just about excersice, but mostly about your eating. To burn 1kg of fat you need to have a calorie deficite of around 7000/8000. Rowing at 2.00 pace takes about 1000 cal per hour. So to loose 1 kg fat you have to row 8 hours.
You seem to be on right track, you are working out I mean, but now look at the eating front. No doubt you have room there. Dump the fast carbs, watch out for hidden fats and eat plenty of protein and veggies.

Patience..............

[jvirnoche]

I have been trying to watch what I eat. I am by no means on a strict diet, but breakfast is Raw Oats and milk, with a fruit and water. Lunch is generally Chicken and veggies, or some sort of salad, and dinner is Protein 2 veggies a fruit and sometimes a starch.

There is the occasional lax day where I'll have something not so healthy, like Pizza, but rarely do I eat fast food.

I'm just concerned that my high intensities are whats holding me back, or does it not matter? Are calories burned, calories burned?

[hjs]

I have been trying to watch what I eat. I am by no means on a strict diet, but breakfast is Raw Oats and milk, with a fruit and water. Lunch is generally Chicken and veggies, or some sort of salad, and dinner is Protein 2 veggies a fruit and sometimes a starch.

There is the occasional lax day where I'll have something not so healthy, like Pizza, but rarely do I eat fast food.

I'm just concerned that my high intensities are whats holding me back, or does it not matter? Are calories burned, calories burned?

Doesn't matter, energy used is energy used, nothing wrong with high intensity. Lower intensities burn more fat directly, but in the big picture that's not so important.
If you now don't loose any weight, simply try to look at your eating and make little adjustments, and keep doing that until you see you weight going in the way you want it to go.

I am a believer in eating more often a day. 3 main meals and 3 in betweens.

Also look at your daily movement, walking and biking if possible can help a lot. A lot of little things make a big one.

[Alissa]

Be sure to take a set of benchline measurements (with a tape measure).

Some people discover that while their weight doesn't seem to have changed much, that their measurements have. It turns out they have been losing fat and gaining muscle. Since muscle weighs more than an equal volume of fat, even if the net weight may not have changed a lot, their total body volume may have changed.

If that turns out to be your experience, you won't want to be discounting successes on your way to your goal!

HTH,

Alissa

[Wilbury]

NO WAY!!!
The hardest part about working out is merely "getting to the gym." Once you get there, it's all good.
I wouldn't focus on HIT right now. Instead, focus on technique, and the Long-Slow-Distance rows. Prepare your mind for the new body to come, and HAVE FUN!! Progress might be slow, but it is progress nonetheless. Your work will pay dividends. Never forget that. The fact that you are highly competative works in your favor. Use it to your advantage. If people can lose 10, 20, or 30 pounds or more, so can you. Work on 10K rows, and slowly build up. Remember, rowing is a very demanding event. Row, rest recover, and repeat. You will succeed.

[emccorm]

Key to weight loss is simply caloric deficit. Im a big fella like you and one thing ive found is that it can be a fine line between giving the body enough fuel to function and exercise, whilst at the same time maintaining a reasonable deficit each day to facilitate weight loss.

it is, for the record, almost IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle whilst losing weight. The only exception to this rule is during adolescence when one has an inordinate amount of testosterone around fueling muscle growth or if one is on drugs, for the same reason. If you are in calorie deficit, you lose weight. its as much a law of the universe as are the laws of physics. Generally, for every 3 kgs of fat youll lose, youll lose the services of a kg of muscle mass as well. 3 to 1 ratio. This can of course be massaged through weight training and protein intake and to a certain extent, the actual foods u are eating but as a rule, if you lose weight, expect some of it to be muscle mass. As a result, your target weight becomes a bit of a moving target on the way down, depending on how much lean mass you are losing.

1 reason i tend to steer away from HIT during a fat loss phase is really only because the higher intensity makes it harder for me to reover whilst in calorie deficit. The erg is very low impact but i do find that tough session after tough session takes its toll and i end up overtrained and hating the mere thought of the erg. The erg is also, for reasons i dont understand, a very inefficient calorie burner. An hour on the erg is quite an effort, an hour on the bike is a piece of cake, but the bike burns more calories. Dont ask me why. Running is best contemporary research will gell youl.. I personally find the erg fantastic for sessions focused on improving fitness. I am primarily a cyclist and a distance swimmer. Nothing gets me fitter than a tough month on the erg, but when i want to lean up, its long slow rides every day. i am 32, so i sit on 130 to 140 HRT for 2 or 3 hours, 4 or 5 times a week. weight falls off as long as i resatict my calorie intake. my daily goal is 2000 calories per day, i am 230 pounds.

[gregsmith01748]

When i was trying to lose weight (50lbs over 6 to 9 months), I focused on a balance training plan and watched calorie intake like a hawk. I did a lot of longer distance rowing because It enabled a much larger calorie burn. I could do a half marathon and burn 1200 calories, but if I did intervals, even with warmup, cool down and active rests, I would only be posting around 10K, and burning less than 1000.

That being said, I did mix in some interval work for the following reasons:
1. I wanted to keep my workout routine interesting
2. I wanted to get faster at rowing, not just lose weight
3. Part of me believed in the idea of interval training revving up my metabolism (I don't anymore)

The key thing was to balance calories in and out. I aimed to create a 7000 calorie deficit over a week, which would result in a 2 lb weight loss. I did this by calculating my BMR, adding in my activity level, plus exercise and then making sure that I ate 1000 calories less than that every day. By working out hard, to get about 1000 calories burned up, i was able to eat about 2000 to 2500 calories a day and lose weight. Even this is close to a normal diet for me, I needed to watch portions carefully because I was "hungry like bear" from working out.

The other thing that really worked for me was weighing myself every day at the same time. There is a fair amount of day to day variation, but by getting a lot of data, you can see the clear trends and make small corrections as you go along. I went so far as to chart progress against my 2 lb per week goal on a graph in my closet. It kept me honest.

You are not wasting your time. But doing it by the numbers might help you make it happen more effectively.

[jvirnoche]

A little update from my end. I just logged my workout #17 of 24 from the "Welcome to Rowing Workouts" I found somewhere on the Concept2 Site. Today was 1:00/r1:00 with a 2k warm-up and 2k cool-down overall 9555m which seems to be average for the past couple days.

I weigh myself First thing after my morning business, when I get home from work (pre workout), and after the Gym (post workout). Overall for the past week, I've been down 3-5lbs from the prior week. I also am starting to notice differences in my body. My forearms are much larger, and firmer, as well as my biceps/triceps/traps. My legs and back have also become much more toned. My stomach has become near flat in the AM, but by the PM it doesn't seem so flat, I drink excessive amounts of liquid during the day (its the military in me), so I tend to think that may be it.

I've been watching my caloric intake pretty hardily, but working in a hospital, you kind of eat what you can, when you get a chance at times. But when it comes down to it, I run to the cafeteria and have a white meat chicken quarter with whatever veggies hey have available, or hit the salad bar, with fat free dressing.

I have kicked my energy drink habit, and occasionally have a diet 7-up, but generally if I'm not drinking water its Decaf Iced-Tea, with a Lemon and a single pink sweetener packet.

As far as rowing is going, I love it. Monotony doesn't bother me (again the military in me) and I go out trying to beat myself each time. My average 500m pace is generally less than 1:50 unless the actual program calls for a slower pace. I've been rowing at a drag coefficient around 125, which I understand is about similar to a quick boat on the water. (I have no idea what I'm talking about here). I think the thing I enjoy about the erg the most is the efficiency. It may not be the best calorie burner, but it is the only cardio workout you can sit and do, that will get your legs/back/arms/shoulders all in one pop, and I can definitely feel the effect for hours after the workout. Cycling may burn better per hour, but then you have to go sit on something else to hit everything else that the erg gets.

As of tonight I am at around 150k Meters rowed since the beginning, of my log book (Jan 31, 2011), and I don't really plan on slowing down much, anytime soon, with exception of the birth of my son (any day now) and that will likely be only for a few days.

I truly appreciate all the replies I've received, the community here is much friendlier here to newbs than other things I've attempted.

Good luck to all of you on your own personal Journey's and feel free to keep me updated with any new info, advice or tips you have for me. I am always interested in the best possible way to do something.

Thanks again.

Afterthought: Would some slip on vans be decent rowing shoes? I use UnderArmour tennis shoes at the moment, and I'm not really a fan, all the hardware in my foot makes it a little more comfortable for a flat soled shoe.

[emccorm]

re shoes, i have no experience here, particularly with your foot injury i dont know what would be best.

All my previous comments really need to be read in the context that i o think the erg is one of the best workouts on the planet. If everyone on the planet spent 20 mins a day on the erg, the world would be a much healthier, lighter, stronger place.

I would suggest you dont try and beat yourself everytime ou go out. that can become quite difficult when u start to get good. The improvement curve is step to start but plateau"s very quickly so whilst the competitior in all of us wants to leave nothing on the tee during every session, is important not to make it your sole reason fr sitting on the erg. Particulalrly in a weight loss phase where you will be a bit tired from day to day etc.,

good luck wth it all.

[bloomp]

For just starting off, you've made great progress. 150k in less than a month is a great training volume for a newbie.

As many people have said, interval training is not the end all to weight loss. In fact you'll burn much more fat doing long steady distance. But either way, just increasing your activity will get you closer to your end goal. At some point you can't do more interval training due to sheer exhaustion, though. That's why pieces of 40-60' (or even more) at an even pace ranging from challenging to not much harder than a warmup are great. You still burn a lot of kCal but don't suffer the same negative effects from intervals. I won't bother you with the same spiel about calorie intake that everyone else has agreed upon, it's true that you've got to suffer some to lose weight.

For your purposes, I'd suggest starting the Pete Plan (http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/). It's a good continuous plan that will let you see improvement from week to week and it mixes intervals and long, steady distance. You'll fight through steady state days with boredom but look forward to the intervals.

To reply to your questions about shoes, you're not alone when you find that thick soled running shoes make erging feel weird. The cushioning is great for running, you mitigate the force of each impact. For rowing, you need to maximize the force of each impact (and that force is much less than the force of your foot hitting pavement) and a thick sole works to keep you from doing that. At a gym, you'll probably HAVE to wear shoes so try the Vans. At home and at practice, I wear just socks.

[jvirnoche]

Update from the front lines:

I've hit 240k Meters thus far. I've finished the 24 workout program and have decided to devise my own program, which I'm sure is already out there, I'm just to lazy/dumb to dig up someone elses foot work.

I've found out, I absolutely despise sitting on the erg for any more than about 1.25 hours. That's about the limit my butt can take, before it starts screaming at me.

As of today, I've started my new program. PT from the military has poked its head out in this, and the intervals is where it shows. This is what my plan is.

Monday: :30/1:00r x 15 (Brisk 2k warm up, and slower 2k cool down)
Tuesday: 60:00 row (slow and steady somewhere in the 2:15 range 80% HR Range)
Wednesday: 2:00/4:00r x 7-10 (Brisk 2k warm up, and slower 2k cool down)
Thursday: 20:00 x 3 row (80% HR range.)
Friday: 1:00/2:00r x 7-10 (Brisk 2k warm up, and slower 2k cool down)
Sat/Sun: Some sort of random row and a day off.

I love the way intervals make me sweat, and get that good muscle pump on as well as the deep heavy breathing, where as the long slows have a way of wearing me down in a completely different way.

Any input on this program would be greatly appreciated.

As far as weight, I'm down to 112.5kg, which makes me feel much better about the entire situation.

[gregsmith01748]

The plan looks good to me. Most of the other plans focus on intervals a bit longer than you defined. For example, a couple of plans use the same one week cycle, but they do 3 types of intervals.

Short: <500m to 1000m with rest equal to work time, paced about as fast as you could do 2k flat-out.
Medium: 1500 to 3000 with rest time equal to 1/2 the work time, paced about as fast as you could do 5k flat out.
Long: basically like your 3x20' with short, 5' ish rests, or shorter intervals, with annoyingly short rests. The ultimate one of these for me is the 15x3'/1'r. When I'm done I feel like a limp noodle.

The reason for the different lengths is to target different energy pathways. I'm still learning all the theory.

I think you may find that one really intense high power sprint session per week will be the optimum in terms of getting faster and staying healthy, at least that's what I've read.

Happy sprinting!