Ranger's training thread

[hjs]

Possibly at one point (when the records were still soft) you were. You're not now as your coach and his training plan are crap. You're only as good as the last time when you didn't fail to show up - so that's 7:02 right now which isn't going to beat any of your 60+ peers.

Please don't feed the troll.

Touché

It's more alive then ever................... It will never evert stop, he should die or get banned.

[hjs]

How often do you visit AA meetings?

I thought of going, just to get to know you better, but I haven't had much time lately, given work, family, and rowing.



I belong to AAA, though.



It's good to be able to get a free tow, when you need one.

ranger

So you now are also going to AA meets in Europa. Fits perfectly in your currrent way of life

[mikvan52]

This "valuable" training thread from ranger in which he refuses to defend his premises, the foundation of his training

SPI!

...about as valuable as dividing the color yellow by the day, Wednesday and comparing it to red divided by Sunday

A study in proportionality

Answering the question:

Is the spi directly proportional to pace?

Given:
200 watts/20 strokes per minute effort = 10 spi
Will the same percentage changes: faster pace and higher spi give you the same spi?

For instance: If you drop the pace of (200watts) 2:00.51 /500m ten precent what do you get?
2:00.51 is 120.51 seconds
90 % of 120.51 is 108.01 sec or 1:48.01

To get direct proportionality, RAISE the rate ten percent too.. from 20 to 22.
What is the spi? If these magnitudes are directly proportional the spi should remain the same AND REMAIN AT 10…
BUT (!) (1:48 PACE) 278 WATTS / 22 SPM IS A SPI OF 12.6.. (not 10)

This makes spi a useless measure unless you are only referring to one pace (wattage).

Newcomers to this thread often do not realize this.

Last night as part of a longer workout, I recorded 12 minutes at 1:58.5 pace and 20 spm
I was warmed up.
My HR went to 144 at the end (with cardiac drift and averaging beginning to the end of the workout this is below my AT (143 bpm)) I had my AT measured in a Lab. It is not a guess.

This 12 minutes measures 11.x spi

If I were to row 11 spi at 1:45 pace… my %HR would be higher… much higher.
As a marker of effort then, SPI doesn’t help you.

Care to answer, Rich?
Or, would you prefer to discuss drinking and driving? It's your thread, after all.

[ranger]

Your second mistake is assuming that a few years of technique work are required to increase stroking power. Erg technique is quite simple, really, and stroking power, natural or otherwise is much more dependent on fitness, including strength. This idea that "skeletal-muscular" work is technical and not fundamentally physiological is absurd.

I am testing this claim--empirically.

If I end up hitting my targets, I will be right and you will be wrong.

You could also test this claim.

Train yourself to pull 16 SPI, just naturally.

If you can train yourself to pull 16 SPI without worrying about technique, just by improving your fitness and strength, you'll prove your point, given that your stroking power now is probably closer to 11 SPI, 12 SPI at most.

ranger

[BrianStaff]

As a result of my attempt to row at Cinci, for tomorrow's classes, I still have a stack of 30 3-page papers to grade for my sophomore-level class, 75 Frost poems to prepare for presentation in my senior-level class, and minutes from a departmental meeting to write up, not to mention that today is Valentine's Day, which I would like to take some time to make special for my wife of 35 years and my 23-year-old daughter

Hmmm! busy day today...yet, here are your posts today with times as recorded in my time-zone

2:58 & edited 5 times
3:11 & edited 3 times
3:26
3:43
3:49
3:53 & edited 1 time
4:03 & edited 3 times
4:11
4:15 & edited 1 time
4:22 & edited 1 time
4:30
4:33 & edited 2 times
4:40
4:45
4:49 & edited 3 times
5:00
5:03
8:00 & edited 1 time
8:06
8:12 & edited 7 times
8:19
8:31 & edited 1 time
8:36
8:49
8:55 & edited 1 time
8:58

You are much worse than a child...completely irresponsible and a total liar.

I have no idea how you sleep at night...wait...you don't though, do you?

[ranger]

Last night as part of a longer workout, I recorded 12 minutes at 1:58.5 pace and 20 spm
I was warmed up.
My HR went to 144 at the end (with cardiac drift and averaging beginning to the end of the workout this is below my AT (143 bpm)) I had my AT measured in a Lab. It is not a guess.

This 12 minutes measures 11.x spi

If I were to row 11 spi at 1:45 pace… my %HR would be higher… much higher.
As a marker of effort then, SPI doesn’t help you.

Give or take a bit, my SPI/technique is a constant.

Rate, pace, and HR are measures of effort, not SPI.

By and large, SPI/technique is a measure of how good/fast you are, given your age and weight.

Give or take a bit, everyone the same age and weight rows a 2K at the same rate.

The rower with the more powerful (i.e., effective and efficient) stroke wins.

ranger

[ranger]

Last night as part of a longer workout, I recorded 12 minutes at 1:58.5 pace and 20 spm
I was warmed up.
My HR went to 144 at the end (with cardiac drift and averaging beginning to the end of the workout this is below my AT (143 bpm)) I had my AT measured in a Lab. It is not a guess.

This 12 minutes measures 11.x spi

If I were to row 11 spi at 1:45 pace… my %HR would be higher… much higher.
As a marker of effort then, SPI doesn’t help you.

Sure would.

And if you did that 1:45 at 13 SPI @ 23 spm, as in my "Steamroller" sessions, your %HRR would be even higher.

But that's because you haven't trained yourself to have a strong stroke.

There is no need to have a strong stroke if you don't want to go fast.

My target is 6:16 for 2K, not 7:00, so I have needed to develop a strong stroke, even though it took me several years to do it.

You can't expect to have a strong stroke without doing a similar sort of training, or at least, that would seem reasonsable.

Do you mean that you just want to sit down and do it, because you want to, without training yourself to do it?

Why even consider such as thing?

At the moment, you pull 2Ks at 9.5 SPI.

Sure, you can train yourself to pull 13 SPI, but it might take a while, perhaps as long as it took me.

It's certainly not impossible, though.

You just have to quit racing for a while (parading your strengths, such as they are), and work on it--exclusively.

To pull 6:16, you need to pull 1:46 spm @ 22 spm for 90min (or more) with a HR of 135 bpm (middlin' UT1).

A top-end UT1 pace of 1:44 predicts a 6:16 2K.

ranger

[bellboy]

As a result of my attempt to row at Cinci, for tomorrow's classes, I still have a stack of 30 3-page papers to grade for my sophomore-level class, 75 Frost poems to prepare for presentation in my senior-level class, and minutes from a departmental meeting to write up, not to mention that today is Valentine's Day, which I would like to take some time to make special for my wife of 35 years and my 23-year-old daughter

Hmmm! busy day today...yet, here are your posts today with times as recorded in my time-zone

2:58 & edited 5 times
3:11 & edited 3 times
3:26
3:43
3:49
3:53 & edited 1 time
4:03 & edited 3 times
4:11
4:15 & edited 1 time
4:22 & edited 1 time
4:30
4:33 & edited 2 times
4:40
4:45
4:49 & edited 3 times
5:00
5:03
8:00 & edited 1 time
8:06
8:12 & edited 7 times
8:19
8:31 & edited 1 time
8:36
8:49
8:55 & edited 1 time
8:58

You are much worse than a child...completely irresponsible and a total liar.

I have no idea how you sleep at night...wait...you don't though, do you?

Forgive me if iv missed it but in all his postings he hasn't actually confirmed whether he was actually in Cincy or not. Was he lying about the weather there? Im assuming he stayed in the batcave all weekend. Let's face it his competitive psyche would have been ruined forever if he had actually made another trip of 250 miles only to bottle it AGAIN? Cue Captain Chaos- not racing my training, lack of muscle grease or if we are really lucky "i cannot keep up this facade any longer. My training has been ruinous and i only post on this thread 20 times a day because it is my only reason for living. Without it i would be left with Robert sodding Frost and my steamroller session playing on a loop in my head".

[ranger]

But you aren't a LWT anymore and you aren't 58/59 any more. Father time stops for no man

Actually, you _lose_ muscle mass as you get older, especially after 60. So, at similar fat levels, it is easier and easier to make weight as you age. You don't have as much muscle mass.

Decline with age due to loss of aerobic capacity is a second per year over 2K after 20.

When I row a FM trial this spring, I hope to show that, now, rowing well (12-13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.), I am 10 seconds per 500m better over a FM than I was was back in 2003.

That 10 seconds per 500m is 75 watts, or about six seconds per 500m in a 2K.

So, sure, each year after I do that FM trial, I'd have to subtract .25 seconds per 500m from that six seconds per 500m improvement in technique to get how much better I am currently rowing than the lwt 6:28 that I pulled back in 2003.

If I need a dozen seconds, three seconds per 500m over my 2003 2K time of 6:28 to get to 6:16, then, sure, I wouldn't want to wait more than 12 years before I do a 2K trial.

A dozen years from now, I won't have the fitness to pull 6:16.

ranger

[snowleopard]

But you aren't a LWT anymore and you aren't 58/59 any more. Father time stops for no man

Actually, you _lose_ muscle mass as you get older. So, at similar fat levels, it is easier and easier to make weight as you age.

So why did you have such an abysmal row at BIRC? You cited difficulty in making weight as your reason for missing your target by 46 seconds.

[ranger]

But you aren't a LWT anymore and you aren't 58/59 any more. Father time stops for no man

Actually, you _lose_ muscle mass as you get older. So, at similar fat levels, it is easier and easier to make weight as you age.

So why did you have such an abysmal row at BIRC? You cited difficulty in making weight as your reason for missing your target by 46 seconds.

I eat too much.

Eating is largely a product of what you need to do during the day.

At the moment, I need to do a lot of brain work. That takes nervous energy, which takes food.

When I am retired in two years (and on sabbatical in one year), I won't have to expend the same amount of nervous energy.

I can just relax and row a lot.

So I won't have to eat as much.

ranger

[jliddil]

[Flipper21]

It really is hard to imagine that so many good folk in here have been sucked into the ranger 'vacuum', me included of course, but, however, I am not fooled like so many of you.

Ranger = Hypothesis

It really is as simply as that. An offensive little man expotentially flexing his hypothesis to that of others in relation to himself...

and that equals diddlysquat.. unscientific but thats ranger speak for you. Lancs had this man sussed long time ago, NAVHAZ inspired us with intellectual equalizer ie, Prof V's Prof.

Mikvan, boasts from a hammer position (same as RR),

the rest of us do our best

Ranger just fades but keeps comin back like Lazarus and even he has limited time before the game was up. Ranger fades, comes and goes, and may even.. MAY even produce a result that lasts a life time of BLAH on the virtual network. Other that that, Ranger is idyiosyncratic of the proverbial train spotter..... harmless in the extreme but enviable in that he has more ticks. SAtill doesn't detract from his NO shows, DNS etc etc contrary to his own words and even without explanation either.....

BAN this thread? BAN the numpties who follow it is the best bet. LOL

[macroth]

Your second mistake is assuming that a few years of technique work are required to increase stroking power. Erg technique is quite simple, really, and stroking power, natural or otherwise is much more dependent on fitness, including strength. This idea that "skeletal-muscular" work is technical and not fundamentally physiological is absurd.

I am testing this claim--empirically.

If I end up hitting my targets, I will be right and you will be wrong.

You could also test this claim.

Train yourself to pull 16 SPI, just naturally.

If you can train yourself to pull 16 SPI without worrying about technique, just by improving your fitness and strength, you'll prove your point, given that your stroking power now is probably closer to 11 SPI, 12 SPI at most.

ranger

Right. If I pull a sub 6:00 2K you'll be the first to know.

But hey, here's another test we can do, right now. Let's see who can hold 13 SPI, 26 spm, 119 df the longest. No breaks, no heart rate limits (I don't have a HR monitor anyway), just row at 26 spm until the average creeps above 1:42 and you can't get it back down. You do 20K of this every morning at a steady UT1 HR, right? Piece of cake!

You can compare to what I manage to do, and that will give you a clue as to where you are in terms of 2K times, since you seem to have no idea whatsoever. Whaddya say? I know your PM3 is camera-shy, so I'll go first.

[JimR]

A dozen years from now, I won't have the fitness to pull 6:16.

The truth is a dozen years ago you couldn't pull a 6:16 and at no point in between have you done a 6:16 ... or anything close.

You should seek professional help to get over this man-crush you have on truly great rowers/ergers ... it is frightening, even on Valentine's Day!

JimR