Rojabo Training

[sander]

All,

What are your total meters averaging out for Rojabo workouts? Mine are somewhere between 5-7K (not including warm-up and cool down). At times with "A" and "B" class workouts this dips even lower to 2K-3K.

My question is, is this enough meters to establish a good base of endurance/fitness? I can remember interval workouts when I ran track of 400m repeats that added up between 5-8 miles of running with limited rest (200m recovery walk). I know running doesn't directly correlate with rowing but it seems to me that I should be putting in more distance?

Do you guys have any thoughts on this? Perhaps if I increased my workouts to twice a day Rojabo would add on more distance?

Thanks for your input.

At my training frequency, increasing the nr of trainings per week does add the distance. Another thing you could do is to add some "recovery" rows onto your rojabo program, doing distance at a really easy pace.

[sander]

I just did the endurance test again. In previous months, I used to do both the power efficiency test and the endurance test. This makes it difficult to compare endurance test results, as you're rowing at (slightly) different power.

How often should I recalibrate the power efficiency test? I noticed only minor differences in the test results over the course of the past 3 months.

Rojabo tells me to do the power efficiency test but I will just input the result of a month ago.

Any comments?

[NavigationHazard]

Ideally you recalibrate both every month. But if you think there's only a minor difference or two in your power-efficiency numbers I don't see any problem with recycling them. You should be able to figure out pretty quickly whether your latest set of workouts is congruent with your ability to do them. If they're too easy or too hard you might then want to redo the P-E test. The better the input, the more likely the algorithm is to generate well-tailored sessions for you.

[bgutting]

^bump^

Was curious to see if anyone else had picked up on this plan or seen any additional results with it.

I started in earnest on it a couple weeks ago, and found that you really have to pay attention to what you're doing on the power-efficiency test. Best I can tell, start at a pace on the 20spm segment that you know you can hold for 30-40 minutes (meaning: this isn't exactly a great program for a novice). Do not increase pressure as you increase the rate. I unwittingly made this mistake (figuring, hey, I can be powerful!) and was completely unable to finish any of the workouts once the plan was calculated. Like, there wasn't enough oxygen in the city for me to survive them--no reasonable amount of rest was going to help. I re-tested the power efficiency, and everything's been smooth since then. EXTREMELY CHALLENGING, but not impossible.

I have no insight into how or how not to incorporate strength training. Generally, I keep my strength work brief and heavy. I'm a lightweight and don't want to add mass, but I do want to increase strength; I continue to question, however, how strong is strong enough when it comes to moving a boat. I do enjoy getting in a couple of CrossFit workouts throughout the week and suggest them to anyone.

How's it been for others?

[NavigationHazard]

Cheers - Ingham et al did a pretty definitive study back in 2002 (title something like Determinants of ergometer performance in elite rowers, Eur Journal App Psych IIRC) that found their strongest correlations between power (watts) at VO2max, max power (watts) as determined by a 5-stroke test, and max force as determined by a 7-stroke test versus 2k performance for around 40 assorted FISA worlds finalists. In other words, if you have raw power and figure out how to sustain it via training you'll be fast on the erg over 2k. IMO Rojabo as a training regimen is all about taking the power you have at low rates and learning how to apply significant portions of it as the rates go up. I would say that you're going to get more bang from your training buck by concentrating on that rather than trying to increase absolute strength. That's especially so if you're a LW and concerned about muscle mass. If I were you I'd be more interested in endurance weight training: in my understanding, if you're doing moderate loads and sets of 20-25 reps you're much less likely to get hypertrophy and risk bulking up too much. You might find this interesting:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17695675/Stre ... ght-rowers

It's a bit of a ramble but it's quite illuminating, I think.

[bgutting]

NavHaz--

Quite well-stated, and a good article to boot. To a degree, I wonder if Rojabo on its own is enough--many of the workouts are challenging, and as any smart athlete knows, one grows and develops during periods of recovery and not during work. Recovery is at least 50% of the process.

Clearly, there's a limit to the value of absolute strength. Were absolute strength of tremendous importance, all rowers would spend time getting their squats and deadlifts up to outrageously high numbers, and we'd see more power-lifting types excelling in the sport. While guys like Olaf Tufte can deadlift over 420lbs, that's not the only thing that translates into speed.

The only question I'd raise in regards to endurance weight training is...am I not already doing plenty for my endurance by precisely following a well-defined plan on the erg and in the boat? I tend to think of endurance as being very specific--consider that Lance Armstrong can probably run a pretty fast marathon, but isn't likely to medal in the Olympics. I've noticed that CrossFit can do a lot to improve your performance across the primary energy systems (ATP-PC, glycolytic, oxidative), and thus my continued use of the program in some capacity (I find it hard to do 4-6 CF workouts per week on top of Rojabo).

And yes, I concur about Rojabo's focus on developing power at lower rates and gradually translating it into higher ratings. It's really quite a brilliant piece of work they've done, and it's nice that they've made it available to anyone who wants to try it. I figure 3-6 months should be a sufficient amount of time to see whether or not it works effectively.

[sander]

I've added our rowing club's "How did you come through winter" tests as 'events' to the rojabo program. The tests will be next week, so now the program serves me a real taper. Curious to see how/if this improves my 2k performance.

The tests will be a 5min all out on Monday 21st, a 2k on Thursday the 24th, and a 6k in the weekend following.

My preparation is perfected by a business trip to Brussels in the second half of this week, so some of my rojabo trainings will have to be replaced by running. Any tips on how to simulate a rowing interval training by running? I intend to use heart rate as a measure of intensity.

[sander]

I've added our rowing club's "How did you come through winter" tests as 'events' to the rojabo program. The tests will be next week, so now the program serves me a real taper. Curious to see how/if this improves my 2k performance.

The tests will be a 5min all out on Monday 21st, a 2k on Thursday the 24th, and a 6k in the weekend following.

My 5 min test went OK. I did 1467m, which is a 1:42.2 split. Exactly what I aimed at. Completely even splits, I should have done the last minute a bit faster but other than that I am quite happy. It´s a personal best because it's the first time I do a 5min test.

2k to follow on Thursday. I will aim at 1:44.5 splits. Not much faster than last time, so if I have something left in the last 500m I will try to get it even lower.

Seems the rojabo plan works for me.

[bgutting]

Sander,

Let us know how that 2K test turns out! I was gone in New Zealand for 10 days (i.e., no meaningful erg workouts), so when I returned home I did the endurance test again--went from tapping out at 28spm/3:45 left to going til 28spm/3:15 left (at the same power guide prescription). So, not terrible.

Our lake has thawed, which means that various training partners will obviously want to work OTW. I'm not sure about trying to do the workouts in a 2x or 4x, so I'm thinking I'll keep water sessions technically-oriented, and do a separate erg session later in the day. There's a good chance I'll buy a single within the next month though, and I'd be curious as to how well the workouts translate to the water. My guess is that if you put forth sufficient effort, they're great. After all...this is all about transferring power through oars, not a plastic handle attached to a chain.

[sander]

Sander,

Let us know how that 2K test turns out! I was gone in New Zealand for 10 days (i.e., no meaningful erg workouts), so when I returned home I did the endurance test again--went from tapping out at 28spm/3:45 left to going til 28spm/3:15 left (at the same power guide prescription). So, not terrible.

Monday 5min test: 1467m - PB - first time I did this test
Thursday 2K test: 6:58.2 - PB - down almost 2sec from 6:59.9 a month ago. Nothing left in the tank in the last 500m but I am happy with the result
Today (Sunday): 6K test: 22:45.2 - a second slower than the 6K I did 2 months ago

I learned a few things:
- It's much better to do the tests at the boathouse than in my own basement. There are other rowers around to cheer, which is great.
- Do not eat 'nasi goreng' an hour and a half before a 6K test.

While doing the 6K test, a few things happened:
- In the first 3k my splits were a bit too fast, which I regretted in the 2nd 3k
- A guy on the erg next to me (to the left) did the 5min test and gave up at 1:40 to go - with a 1:36 average.
- Another guy on the erg to the right was rowing at 70% pulling the same splits as I. OK, he's 15kg heavier.
- My dinner . . .

Our lake has thawed, which means that various training partners will obviously want to work OTW. I'm not sure about trying to do the workouts in a 2x or 4x, so I'm thinking I'll keep water sessions technically-oriented, and do a separate erg session later in the day. There's a good chance I'll buy a single within the next month though, and I'd be curious as to how well the workouts translate to the water. My guess is that if you put forth sufficient effort, they're great. After all...this is all about transferring power through oars, not a plastic handle attached to a chain.

Our lake is still frozen. In fact, yesterday I replaced the erg with a great speed skating training on our lake. It was sunny and there was no snow on the ice at all.

I have been doing the rojabo trainings in the single and they work out quite well. You just need a strokecoach to check the stroke frequency. You don't need to know your speed as long as you keep the effort similar to what you're doing on the erg.

[sander]

So today I have been at the university to get myself tested. Now that I know my threshold heart rate (169 bpm) and my maximum heart rate (190 bpm), how do I work this knowledge into the rojabo training program?

I guess I should be below the threshold in the "D" trainings, but how about "C" and "B"?

[bgutting]

I wouldn't worry about it. You'll find as many opinions on the role & value of heart rate as you will athletes, but I've never come across anything all THAT conclusive to warrant sweating it that much. The fact is, the plan's been working well for you thus far, there's probably no reason to tweak it much. You could retest your power efficiency though if it's been awhile, other than that I'd stay on target.

[sander]

So today I have been at the university to get myself tested. Now that I know my threshold heart rate (169 bpm) and my maximum heart rate (190 bpm), how do I work this knowledge into the rojabo training program?

I guess I should be below the threshold in the "D" trainings, but how about "C" and "B"?

I received the raw data from the test and decided to make my own plots. Also, I tried finding some information on the interpretation but I am a little confused. It seems they determined the threshold to be at 169 based on the "deflection point" around 240W in the graph. Here's the result. I've plotted averages for 30sec intervals, because especially on the VO2 data there is a huge scatter when using the raw data.

I guess bgutting's remark is right. The plan seems to be working. I will do another endurance test this evening.

spiro_roosendaal.png (27.21 KiB) Viewed 8073 times

[bgutting]

Sander, be sure to post how it goes! And whatever impact it has on your Rojabo Index.

The graph and data and all that is interesting, but I'm not sure exactly what it says. That could just be a function of my inability to read it, or, it might not demonstrate a whole lot. We have tons of access to all sorts of information now, and it's easy to get overloaded, and really easy to think that you need to know all these things. Perhaps, perhaps not.

The Rojabo endurance test--basically, your standard step-test, with specific stroke ratings prescribed--gives you a really good idea of where you're at. As others have said before, the interesting thing about the program is pairing specific wattage with a specific SPM. Developing a base of power, training you to sustain it, and then translate it to higher ratings makes more sense than constantly checking your heart rate, I'd imagine. Plus, I've read things (not in detail) about McLaren developing high level performance in rowers by doing tons of VERY low rating pieces at max power. Further proof that lots of things work and that there's no golden key or magic solution out there. At least with Rojabo, you get some defined structure rather than a loose framework of what someone else did.

I test endurance again on Monday. Dare I say I'm looking forward to it!

[sander]

Sander, be sure to post how it goes! And whatever impact it has on your Rojabo Index.

You asked for it. Other readers warn me before this becomes the "sanders training thread". It has to remain useful for others.

I did the endurance test and had to stop at 28 spm, 30 sec to go. I am now at 401 rojabo index, 6:50 actual max, 6:39 potential max. My actual recent best 2km score is 6:58.2 on February 24th.

Keeping in mind that each stroke that I keep going at 28 spm is an extra point on the index helped a lot. A month ago I was struggling already at 26spm, now I felt relatively good even in the first 2min of the 28. (And the power efficiency results have been constant for the third month in a row.) I managed to get roughly 35 seconds further than a month ago, but maybe I was more of a sissy today and stopped too early. I feel like I am recovering faster from exercise than I used to, but all that is subjective.

As long as it keeps me happy and motivated, I guess it's OK!