Ranger's training thread

[JimR]

you have been talking about longer than anything else, more often than anything else is you 6:16 2K. You are drifting further and further away from acheiving this as the years go by

Nope.

I am getting closer and closer to my goal every day.

So your claim then is that everything you have ever said you would deliver but have not yet delivered (like a LWT 6:16 2K) is a goal?

JimR

[ranger]

So your claim then is that everything you have ever said you would deliver but have not yet delivered (like a LWT 6:16 2K) is a goal?

At 60 years old, a 6:16 2K requires some pretty good preparation, no?

Effectiveness, aerobic capacity, endurance, efficiency.

I think I have what I need of the first three.

Now, I am just working on the last one: efficiency.

When you become efficient with an effective technique at the limits of your endurance and aerobic capacity, you relax with it completely, doing it precisely and consistently, with unconscious ease and mastery, right up to the point of exhaustion.

The best way to work on this is through sharpening workouts and racing--of all sorts.

So, that's what I am now doing (and/or getting up to speed to do).

I'll row at six venues this winter.

So this is the agenda for the next couple of months:

Sharpen and race, sharpen and race, sharpen and race, sharpen and race, sharpen and race, sharpen and race.

ranger

[JimR]

So your claim then is that everything you have ever said you would deliver but have not yet delivered (like a LWT 6:16 2K) is a goal?

... and so on ...

How does any of what you posted relate to the question at hand? You said you have delivered everything you have ever talked about delivering. I said you have said (more than one ironically) that a LWT 6:16 2K is a lock ... but you have not delivered.

So your "I always deliver" claim is untrue. The same could be said for your "I have my weight under control" and your "I am sharpening" ... and the list could go on and on.

JimR

[ranger]

You said you have delivered everything you have ever talked about delivering.

Yes.

So, chances are, anything that I am talking about now will be delivered, too.

A 6:16 2K is my ultimate goal.

To prepare for this goal, I have had to overcome my major weakness: bad/ineffective technique and therefore low stroking power.

I have now delivered on that.

I have improved my technique to the point that I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.)--e.g., 1:45 @ 23 spm.

The only thing that remains is work on efficiency, which I am doing now.

I already have the endurance and aerobic capacity that I need to reach my goal.

I broke the 50s lwt WR three times, as a complete novice, rowing badly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.), not even knowing how to row, and when I was just a couple months shy of 53.

At 13 SPI and 119 df., I now only need to rate 32 spm in a 3-to-1 ratio to pull 1:34/6:16 for 2K.

ranger

[bellboy]

So your claim then is that everything you have ever said you would deliver but have not yet delivered (like a LWT 6:16 2K) is a goal?

... and so on ...

How does any of what you posted relate to the question at hand? You said you have delivered everything you have ever talked about delivering. I said you have said (more than one ironically) that a LWT 6:16 2K is a lock ... but you have not delivered.

So your "I always deliver" claim is untrue. The same could be said for your "I have my weight under control" and your "I am sharpening" ... and the list could go on and on.

JimR

Always deliver? i remember the 7 WR from 7 attempts a few years ago. I still dont know how i got over your abject failure on that one. I was bereft.

[ausrwr]

Bereft? I was almost hospitalised. Not from depression, but from trying not to shit myself from laughing too hard.

6:16? Rich, you're not good enough to do that at ANY weight. You weren't seven years ago, and you're now physically worse, and you certainly don't row 20 seconds better.

The questions to ask are:
i) How much will you miss your "lock" targets in all your races this year?
ii) When will you do a trial over any of your distances? and, most fun of all
iii) What will be your excuses for failure be?

I'm pretty sure that the real answers:
i) A cretinous training program;
ii) An idiot for a coach; and
iii) Ageing

will not form any of your explanations (or, as we'd call them "Excuses and Lies").

[ranger]

When will you do a trial over any of your distances?

Soon, I think.

Trials are best done from the top down.

I think I can now do a FM @ 1:48, perhaps better.

1:48 for a FM would beat my pb set almost ten years ago by six seconds per 500m and predict a 1:34/6:16 2K.

At 1:48, I would rate 22 spm (12.5 SPI).

HR steady state at 150-155 bpm.

The 60s lwt WR for a FM is 2:00 pace.

The 60s hwt WR for a FM is 1:54 pace.

In 2002-2003, rowing poorly (10 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.), I could only do 5K, 1:48 @ 22 spm, before my HR maxed out (185 bpm, etc.) and I had to stop.

ranger

[JimR]

When will you do a trial over any of your distances?

Soon, I think.

But you said you would do trials and post results last September ... so again we have this example of you "saying" you will do something but having no credibility on your commitment to deliver.

JimR

[Gus]

This has nothing to do with erging or rowing, but might be of interest to anybody reading this thread:

Symptoms of a Pathological Liar:

A pathological liar would always tend to exaggerate about things. He/she would always talk about many things in a much broader perspective. Their daily life often includes such far-fetched sentences about many things. It could be a simple issue that may not even hold too much importance for you.

These kinds of liars would be noticed easily because they tend to change their stories frequently. It may so happen that a pathological liar may not really be able to keep a record of stories that are fabricated as per his/her imagination and this may be noticed very easily in any normal situation.

These liars often lie in situations whenever they find it easy to do so. A simple situation is often used to their advantage by such liars.

They often go on the defensive whenever anyone cross-examines the person. This happens even if you ask an innocent question in relation to the given situation. A pathological liar would tend to feel threatened when questioned. This could explain their reaction to any questions asked.

A pathological liar must be handled carefully if you wish to help the person change this habit. These liars would need to be reminded gently about their behavior by pointing out their little bits of lies. Do not blame them for the lies, as many times, they are not even aware about what is being said by them. You might need to use professional help to tackle extreme cases.

[leadville]

Bereft? I was almost hospitalised. Not from depression, but from trying not to shit myself from laughing too hard.

6:16? Rich, you're not good enough to do that at ANY weight. You weren't seven years ago, and you're now physically worse, and you certainly don't row 20 seconds better.

The questions to ask are:
i) How much will you miss your "lock" targets in all your races this year?
ii) When will you do a trial over any of your distances? and, most fun of all
iii) What will be your excuses for failure be?

I'm pretty sure that the real answers:
i) A cretinous training program;
ii) An idiot for a coach; and
iii) Ageing

will not form any of your explanations (or, as we'd call them "Excuses and Lies").

Al - sorry to hear of your near hospitalization; if you were on this side of the pond you could sue rangerboy. Alas, no such luck.

I'm thinking we need to establish a non-betting pool of guesses as to rangerboy's result in his next public display of rowing incompetence. I'm nowhere near tech savvy enough to figure out how to set up a chart - googledocs? to do this.

I suggest we list the time in one column and the name of the guesser in the next. The winner gets a beer from everyone else whenever the rest see him/her. That's one beer, not a free beer for each encounter. I'll take the 6:48.5 - 6:49.0 spot.

come on up and place your bets, boys!

[MRapp]

When will you do a trial over any of your distances?

Soon, I think.

Trials are best done from the top down.

I think I can now do a FM @ 1:48, perhaps better.

1:48 for a FM would beat my pb set almost ten years ago by six seconds per 500m and predict a 1:34/6:16 2K.

ranger

This and many other predictions you make here are true. The one glaring problem is that you've been saying these things for several years but have never actually done them. In your mind does "soon" mean by the time you're 75? Next week? You most certainly are not going to do them in the next 6 weeks during the time you're supposed to be sharpening FROM THE TOP DOWN for your assault on 6:16. Please prove me wrong.

You diligently posted and posted until my hypothetical wager disappeared to a back page. Unless you have a stroke during the event you couldn't not collect $500 if you're half as good as you claim. What a fraud. You reply that you'll just pull at 30spm and if you're able to go all the way through 2k you'll be fine? Somebody that has erged 50 million meters and you don't know if you'll be able to go 2k without handling down or taking a break to rest??? You are far more pathetic than I thought.

Leadville, the prediction is tough. If he goes off at 1:42 for the first 1000 I'd think he could come in at 6:52-6:53. If he goes off as he predicts he will at 1:37...we could see a meltdown of epic proportions. "paddling" by 600 meters and a DNF most likely.

[emccorm]

I am willing to put my wager down at 7:00 to 7:05. The pressure,excitement and tension felt by strangerranger when he sits down will result in a meltdown of biblical proportions. He knows that failure to deliver will result in forum humiliation. His beloved world of importance will come crashing down and he will have nothing left, nothing but his basement and the voices in his head. One almost feels sorry for post failure ranger. Who will listen to his ramblings then.....not me....

Im in australia so id need to collect my beers next time you guys are in my corner of the world.

Ed

[Bob S.]

I am willing to put my wager down at 7:00 to 7:05. The pressure,excitement and tension felt by strangerranger when he sits down will result in a meltdown of biblical proportions. He knows that failure to deliver will result in forum humiliation. His beloved world of importance will come crashing down and he will have nothing left, nothing but his basement and the voices in his head. One almost feels sorry for post failure ranger. Who will listen to his ramblings then.....not me....
Ed

It has not worked that way in the past and I see no reason why this season should be any different. It just goes on and on.

Bob S.

[Carl Watts]

The challenge for Ranger is to now row a sub 7 as a 60 year old.

Forget about the 6:16 this is not possible, in fact it probably never was.

If he can hold it together and get on the right pace at the start and not keep blowing up it should be possible for him to take the 60's WR. He is physically able but he needs to get the mental side sorted, kind of the opposite problem that 60 years olds face.

[ranger]

iii) What will be your excuses for failure be?

I'm pretty sure that the real answers:
i) A cretinous training program;
ii) An idiot for a coach; and
iii) Ageing

As time goes on, this claim will be tested by the facts, so it is really beside the point to debate the issue.

As these facts roll in, I will be happy to compare the results of my training over the last decade to the results of others over the history of the sport, although we will have to wait to assess these results until I race rowing well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.), fully prepared.

Historically, with their training, no veteran WR-holder, all of whom, I presume, have trained in traditional ways, has done much better than gotten four seconds per 500m _worse_ over 2K, and therefore across the board in the other distances, too, in their decade of racing between 50 years old and 60 years old.

As I have mentioned several times, from my pb of 6:28, that would predict something like 6:44, at best, for any 60s racing that I might do, this year, or in any following year.

This historical trend, I think, is still in place, and will continue to be in place, I think, unless I revise/break it in some radical way, as I think I will.

For instance, it predicts that someone like Paul Siebach will not do any better than 6:41 for 2K when he 60.

As a veteran WR-holder, 40 to 70, it is clear:

If you just sharpen and then race, sharpen and then race, without using your training time to try to get better at rowing, rather than just to try to get fitter, you just get worse and worse--precipitously.

The historical norm is that, from 50 years old to 60 years old, your 2K declines at a rate of 1.7 seconds per year.

We'll soon see whether this has been true for me, too, even though I did not train in traditional ways, that is, following some traditional training plan for rowing or following the advice of (what you would regard as) a "smart," experienced coach.

ranger