Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

guess who got 4th

Stephansen was 4th in the world in a 1x?

Makes my point exactly.

The best OTW rowers are also the best ergers.

If you could pull 5:58 for 2K OTErg, you could also be 4th best in the world in a 1x.

But since you only pull 6:50 OTErg for 2K, you miss being 4th in the world in a 1x by exactly the same margin--almost a minute.

Your performance OTErg predicts this--exactly.

ranger

[ranger]

I mean, seriously, after another season of missing your long-stated goal of 6:16 by 25 seconds can't let you carry on with the bullshit

I haven't tried yet.

Without sharpening, I pulled sub-6:30, and that was at high drag, still struggling with technique.

Everyone gets about a dozen seconds over 2K from a couple of months of hard sharpening.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

I don't know what you get from rowing well at low drag, but I assume that it's quite a bit, too.

So I only need to rate 32 spm for 2K to pull 6:16.

10 MPS

200 strokes.

Sure.

I might still have lots of work to do to get to this target, but I am working on it now--directly.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

For someone who can't row seven minutes without handling down nine times you sure assert a lot of knowledge of other people's physiologies. And of their training. I've managed to row sub-6:20 more than once without ever doing a serious non-rate-capped 10k on an erg. Or a FM. Or a serious hour on the erg. I prefer to do my distance rowing in my single when possible, in bigger boats when the single isn't practical, and only latterly on an erg. I might add that I do it OTW continuously, at grunt levels you could only approximate by cementing shut the south end of your cloaca and then swallowing a box of exlax. True, the resulting thrashing would resemble your erg stroke. On a good day.

You're sort of right with regards to yourself. Your proposed 20 x 500m/3:30 @ 1:34 r32 session does in fact mean nothing. That's because you can't do it now, have never been able to do it, and will never come close to being able to do it.

As for my interval-workout results, you amuse us by coming up with ever more elaborate explanations for why I can perform them at levels you can't touch, even though (according to you) I'm going to struggle to row 6:30 at BIRC while you go sub-6:20. Stick around for a few minutes. I'll post something that will tax both of your functioning brain cells to explain away.

[ranger]

For someone who can't row seven minutes without handling down nine times you sure assert a lot of knowledge of other people's physiologies. And of their training. I've managed to row sub-6:20 more than once without ever doing a serious non-rate-capped 10k on an erg. Or a FM. Or a serious hour on the erg. I prefer to do my distance rowing in my single when possible, in bigger boats when the single isn't practical, and only latterly on an erg. I might add that I do it OTW continuously, at grunt levels you could only approximate by cementing shut the south end of your cloaca and then swallowing a box of exlax. True, the resulting thrashing would resemble your erg stroke. On a good day.

You're sort of right with regards to yourself. Your proposed 20 x 500m/3:30 @ 1:34 r32 session does in fact mean nothing. That's because you can't do it now, have never been able to do it, and will never come close to being able to do it.

As for my interval-workout results, you amuse us by coming up with ever more elaborate explanations for why I can perform them at levels you can't touch, even though (according to you) I'm going to struggle to row 6:30 at BIRC while you go sub-6:20. Stick around for a few minutes. I'll post something that will tax both of your functioning brain cells to explain away.

Blah, blah, blah.

Just row 60min @ 1:44 OTErg and the question is put to rest.

Can you?

Not much hope, I think.

ranger

[aharmer]

For someone who can't row seven minutes without handling down nine times you sure assert a lot of knowledge of other people's physiologies. And of their training. I've managed to row sub-6:20 more than once without ever doing a serious non-rate-capped 10k on an erg. Or a FM. Or a serious hour on the erg. I prefer to do my distance rowing in my single when possible, in bigger boats when the single isn't practical, and only latterly on an erg. I might add that I do it OTW continuously, at grunt levels you could only approximate by cementing shut the south end of your cloaca and then swallowing a box of exlax. True, the resulting thrashing would resemble your erg stroke. On a good day.

You're sort of right with regards to yourself. Your proposed 20 x 500m/3:30 @ 1:34 r32 session does in fact mean nothing. That's because you can't do it now, have never been able to do it, and will never come close to being able to do it.

As for my interval-workout results, you amuse us by coming up with ever more elaborate explanations for why I can perform them at levels you can't touch, even though (according to you) I'm going to struggle to row 6:30 at BIRC while you go sub-6:20. Stick around for a few minutes. I'll post something that will tax both of your functioning brain cells to explain away.

Blah, blah, blah.

Just row 60min @ 1:44 OTErg and the question is put to rest.

Can you?

Not much hope, I think.

ranger

Why don't you do it and put something to rest? Why don't you show us 10 minutes at 1:44 just for the hell of it? Why don't you show us 5x500, 1:34/32 just for the hell of it? Neither of these should tax you in the least. The only interesting variable left is to guess what excuse you'll pull for the DNS or DNF at BIRC. Due to the reporting structure at BIRC, you'll have to weigh in. If you actually start you'll have to pull at least 1:35 for the first 500 because it's guaranteed you pull 6:20. Let's all assume you don't dream up an excuse to DNS, and you get to 500m at 1:35. Is it a cramp that causes you to handle down? Is it an accidental drop of the handle? Could it be something else I haven't considered? Sounds like everything is recorded in this bad boy, no excuses once you sit on the machine. I'd bet a couple people will even have video cameras with the ability to zoom in on your monitor for 7 minutes to record the entire train wreck for posterity. You're sharpened. No more mystery unless you don't show up or don't sit down for your race. This should be good.

Just because I love being a pest, you conveniently ignored my request to let us know how many of those 500's you've managed to string together at 1:34/32. You replied that you're doing 3:30r so I know you saw it, just wondering why you ignored the question of how many you could do today.

[ranger]

I prefer to do my distance rowing in my single

Sure, who wouldn't?

That's not the issue.

The issue is what you do for 60min OTErg.

If you can do 1:44, then, sure, you can pull 6:16 for 2K.

Easy as that.

Why wouldn't you want to hold the 50s hwt WR for 60min?

That would be quite a feather to add to your accomplishments with sprinting.

ranger

[ranger]

Why don't you do it

Sure.

I need to do it, too.

If I can't do 1:44 for 60min, I can't pull 6:16 for 2K.

Simple as that.

ranger

[ranger]

For someone who can't row seven minutes without handling down nine times

Sure.

But if you had to row at 165 lbs., you have to put down much more than the handle.



I am also facing up to the physical demands of the sport.

You don't.

It would be interesting to see a NavHaz rowing at 10% body fat.

But again, not much hope in that.

ranger

[aharmer]

Coward

[NavigationHazard]

Here's tonight's 16 x 500m/3:30 r32, negative-splitted. I apologize for the grainy, poor-quality screenshots.





01] 1:34.1 r33
02] 1:33.8 r32
03] 1:33.7 r33
04] 1:33.7 r31
05] 1:33.6 r32
06] 1:33.6 r32
07] 1:33.5 r32
08] 1:33.5 r32
09] 1:33.5 r32
10] 1:33.2 r32
11] 1:33.3 r32
12] 1:33.0 r32
13] 1:33.0 r32
14] 1:31.7 r31
15] 1:31.3 r32
16] 1:28.3 r36

24:46.9 (9000m total work distance) 1:32.9 average r32.3. The last eight were at 1:32.2 average pace.

I admit the total workout was a tad slower than when I did it on 24 September 2009 in 1:32.6 r32.3. And posted the results in one of your training threads, in which you also were bleating on about 20 x 500m r32 in 1:34. But the last eight on that session was only at 1:32.5 and the last rep only 1:29.8.

You couldn't do this workout then. You can't do the workout now. You will never come close to doing the workout. And 20 reps (which you'd better believe I can do) is that much more beyond you. For that matter you can't do a single one of the timed workouts you so promiscuously love to cite at your claimed paces/ratings. I suppose there's something to be said for the consistency of your fraudulence. But that's sort of like praising the firmness of my cat's latest stool.

Finally, you might try facing up to the psychological demands of the sport every once in a while. They include honest effort, two words conspicuously lacking in your vocabulary these past seven years.

[mikvan52]

guess who got 4th

Stephansen was 4th in the world in a 1x?

Makes my point exactly.

The best OTW rowers are also the best ergers.

Are you planning to be 4th at the BIRC and then calling yourself the best?

Thanksgiving is just around the corner too:


But (as is your wont)... you didn't answer my question about your training in my HS post:

Watch as Stephansen rushes his body and legs and arms out of bow on the recovery (the effective way to get a great erg score as you beat an erg to death) thereby defeating the superlative power at his disposal... Rich... Is this the famous "DLS" you are shooting for OTW?

Is this DLS via RWB and "distance trained" that you are 'happy with"?
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=rcu ... VCcFH1xXpE

Let the braying continue!

[pmacaula]

... The LwtM1x...guess who got 4th... with his erg-stroke?... not even close to 1st (Miani of Italy)
hint: he's the WR lwt holder; HS is getting better OTW though...

Mike - Agree he is getting better, but as the commentators said, he is enormously powerful, but he just doesn't translate enough if it into forward movement yet.
For those not familiar with the OTW worlds, there are two levels of competition - the Olympic classes and the non-Olympic Classes. For male lightweights, the Olympic classes are the 2x (double) and 4- (coxless four). For females, the only Olympic boat is the 2x.
Stephansen was in the A final of a non-Olympic class. Almost all countries put their top rowers in the Olympic class boats & the 2nd tier in the non-Olympic boats (or have some of the Oly class athletes double up).

Denmark's men's lightweight 4- (Olympic class) came 9th (4-: 3rd in B final) and they did not enter the 2x. Their lightweight 4x (quad - non Olympic class) came 3rd of 6 entries. Suggests to me that Denmark does not currently have two athletes ready to compete strongly in the 2x.

LM4-
(b) PEDERSEN Christian
(2) VILHELMSEN Jens
(3) WINTHER Kasper
(s) JOERGENSEN Morten

LM1x
(b) STEPHANSEN Henrik

LM2-
(b) DITTMANN Lasse
(s) KRISTENSEN Martin

LM4x
(b) JENSEN Steffen
(2) BATENBURG Martin
(3) NIELSEN Christian
(s) SOERENSEN Hans Christian
Crews: 6 Athletes: 14

Cheers. Patrick.

[Carl Watts]

Hey Ranger is it not time for some screen shots ?

With only two weeks to go your not going to get any better so what you can do now is the best your going to do at BIRC.

So are you going to put something up ? anything ? just choose something, even a 500m it's only going to take you a minute and a half !

[ranger]

Hey Ranger is it not time for some screen shots ?

With only two weeks to go your not going to get any better so what you can do now is the best your going to do at BIRC.

So are you going to put something up ? anything ? just choose something, even a 500m it's only going to take you a minute and a half !

Carl--

If you keep thinking of training as racing, especially for older and less experienced rowers such as yourself, you miss the sport entirely.

You turn it into a circus of buffoons, flailing away--shorting the slide, dumping the finish, delaying the recovery, rushing the catch, missing the swing, botching the timing, etc.

Rowing well for a big heavyweight such as yourself is 16 SPI.

Food for thought.

You still have a lot to learn, and none of it has to do with racing.

ranger

[ranger]

Give or take a bit, if you consider 36 spm as an ideal racing rate for the erg, in the lightweight male ranks, historically, there has been a pretty regular loss of 1 SPI per age division from aging.

20s 13.5 SPI (1:29.5)
30s 13 SPI (1:31)
40s 12 SPI (1:33)
50s 11 SPI (1:36)
55s 10 SPI (1:39)
60s 9 SPI (1:42)

Over the last eight years, I have done training that has been specifically designed to overcome and reverse this loss of stroking power with aging, increasing my stroking power from 10.5 SPI at 52 to 13.5 SPI at 60.

It will interesting to see how this odd training will affect my 2K when I race this year--fully sharpened, rowing well (13 SPI), at low drag (120 df.).

The question that my training is asking is this: Is the loss in pace with aging primarily the loss of aerobic capacity? Or is this loss really more skeletal-motor and technical, a loss of a maximally effective and efficient stroke?

If the decline in pace with age is primarily aerobic, someone who rows with a maximally effective and efficient stroke at 60 should just be forced to lower the rate to the point that the pace is the same as those the same age pulling at 36 spm.

If the decline in pace with age is primarily skeletal-motor and technique, a loss of a maximally effective stroke, no matter what the rate, someone who rows with a maximally effective and efficient stroke at 60 should row much faster than those the same age pulling at 36 spm.

At 13.5 SPI, 1:42 comes along at about 24 spm.

ranger