Ranger's training thread

[DUThomas]

People like Meyer and Anderson have more horses than you (by a minute over 5K).

And your current 5K time is? I recall Mike had a pretty good one recently.

[snowleopard]

Today, I got a 4-month pass to the rec building on campus and was back on the stepper for an hour.

Very, very odd. We see this year on year.

As the racing season beckons you suddenly up the the ante on aerobic exercise. This has nothing whatsoever to do with sharpening and everything to do with panic weight loss

And of course it gives the lie to the training volumes you report. No one could do the training you claim to be doing and still eat and drink enough to gain weight.

[blake_mulder]

Could somebody please tell me how on earth rowing on an erg with a "sweep stroke" is possible?

How does it differ from a conventional stroke?

and if you could point me in the direction of a video...

[kini62]

The best OTW rowers are also the best ergers.ranger

Perhaps if you use Wadell as an example. But go to any gym, mma camp etc... and there are guys in there that I guarantee can pull low 6 and under who have never even seen a shell or a set of oars.

By working on technique, over the last eight years, I have increased my stroking power by 35%.ranger

Then why have you gotten so much slower

Why do you fail to finish so many races

Why do you offer no proof whatsoever that you can come within 30 seconds of your "goals"

This increase in technical effectiveness and efficiency is astonishing.

ranger

Equally astonishing is that even will ALL these "technical" and "efficiency" improvements and all the 4 hour a day training sessions you continue to get slower and slower and slower

[mikvan52]

What are his chances in the final? Will they be based on his erg score?

All of this acting out is obtuse in the extreme, Mike.

If your erg scores were better, your OTW rowing would be better.

No question. Total garbage

Your weak erg scores are a liability, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. more Total garbage

Why can't you rate 30 spm at the Head of the Charles?

It doesn't have anything to do with your OTW technique.

It has to do with your physical capacity. because you say so?

People like Meyer and Anderson have more horses than you (by a minute over 5K).a lie

You could use to erg to work on this weakness, but the attitudes you express here explain why you are too foolish to consider it.

Pretty odd attitudes to be parading on a forum for indoor rowing. It is you who is upset with your own indoor rowing. I am pleased with mine

Get with it ranger...
My friends Andersen and Meyer raced on a different day in lighter wind.. Times aren't comparable.

I was there in Boston both days.. I saw it. You only saw clips of the Cambridge turn.. not the whole course,,, so you can cut the troll-stuff.

I beat Meyer both times I faced him this year...
I beat Andersen last year (twice) before he turned 60. We did not face each other this year.

This is not to say that I had a good race at the HOCR this year... I didn't... often, if you are seeded next to your competition you have a better chance of really racing them...

I am as strong as I need to be on the erg. I need better technique... You would do well to consider this too.. as your OTW form is execrable.
I sincerely doubt that any lightweight rower 55-59 can beat me OTW... Naturally this is not the issue in a 50-59 open race that was held in mostly head wind conditions .

It is extremely bizarre for you to contend:
"If your erg scores were better, your OTW rowing would be better.

No question."

You are a self-proclaimed novice OTW who has never witnessed a race and who has no coaching. What qualifies you to make any sweeping assertion based on no knowledge? Poetry? Trollery??
Stop being such a transparent cry-baby abut being overweight and slow. You jibes at others don't fool anyone. You hopes of setting a 55-59 lwt erg WR are nil. Live with it...
Go on to the 60's and give it you best shot.
You'd do well to start sharing the details of your training. It would be good Karma. ...and you need all the help you can gather at this point.
RWB in silence has failed.

Call me obtuse... after I've showed yo to be a fool.
Bamary, Grobler, Stephansen are not World Champions OTW based on their erg scores.. You state otherwise... just to be a troll.
Be pleased with yourself... you've achieved champion troll status in lieu of athletic achievement in 5 years of the 55-59 lwt group where your are currently #4 on the all-time list.

[TomR]

Call me obtuse...

You are obtuse.

Only an obtuse man would care what ranger says. Only an obtuser man would argue with him.

[ranger]

Bamary, Grobler, Stephansen are not World Champions OTW based on their erg scores.

Not sure what you mean by this.

If Stephansen pulled a 2K on the erg in 6:50, as you do, he wouldn't have any chance of being a World Champion OTW.

To be a World Champion OTW, he needs be at least 10 seconds per 500m faster than that OTErg.

What you are saying is that he doesn't need to be 13 seconds per 500m faster than that, as he is.

Sure.

But that three seconds per 500m is a pretty narrow band, really.

Stop being obtuse.

The relevance of the erg to achievement OTW is clear as a bell.

If I pull 6:16 OTErg, then that three seconds per 500m window becomes 6:16-6:28 for those with extensive OTW experience but different level of competency with their OTW technique.

For 60s lwts who have trouble pulling 7:00 for 2K, as you will soon have, the gap between 6:28 and 7:00 is _huge_, and not to be dismissed lightly.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool of the first order.

ranger

[ranger]

I am as strong as I need to be on the erg.

Sorry, but this is an entirely foolish dismissal of the your major weakness.

If you ignore your weaknesses, there is no point to training.

Training is an opportunity to overcome your weaknesses, not an opportunity to ignore them and parade your strengths.

ranger

[ranger]

your OTW form is execrable.

Sure, but I am just a beginner OTW, and therefore I am getting better by leaps and bounds.

I already am as fast as you are at head pace rates such as 26 spm, even though I still have many things to work on.

I am delighted with that.

Who wouldn't be?

ranger

P.S. You don't have any idea how I row OTW. You have just watched three-year-old films. Quite a bit of water has gone under the boat since then.

[ranger]

Mike--

Given that you pull 1:48 pace for 5K OTErg and have done 2:00 pace for 5K OTW, you are at the limits of possibility with OTW technique.

12 seconds per 500m over your erg time.

You do 1:38 for 1K OTErg and 1:50 for 1K OTW.

There's that same limit.

12 seconds per 500m over your erg time.

To improve your OTW times, you need to improve your erg times.

If you could do 1:38 for 5K OTErg, as elite younger rowers do, and as I might do, too, you would have the possibility of doing 1:50 for 5K OTW.

That's the relevance of the erg to your OTW rowing.

ranger

[ranger]

As a 55s/60s lwt, at 13.5 SPI, WR pace for 2K comes along at 26 spm; my 2K target of 1:34 comes along at 31 spm.

26-31 spm is a very narrow range of rates, all with _huge_ ratios (4-to-1, 3-to-1, etc.).

This simplifies training quite a bit.

26-31 spm, with ratios of 4-to-1 and 3-to-1, etc., are head race, or middle distance, rates and ratios.

They aren't sprinting rates and ratios at all.

Let the wheel spin!

Let the boat run!

Work, and then:

Rrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssttttttttttt.

Work, and then:

Rrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssttttttttttt.

ranger

[ranger]

It is hard to believe that the pace I used to do at 42 spm in a 1-to-1 ratio, when I was stroking naturally at 10 SPI and max drag, I now do at 31 spm in a 3-to-1 ratio, stroking naturally at 13.5 SPI and 120 df.

It is also _very_ cool, I think, that this pace, stroking along naturally at 31 spm, is 6.5 seconds per 500m under the present 2K standard for my age and weight, and therefore, implicitly, if carried out to 2K, will break six age and weight division 2K world records, simultaneously: 40s lwt, 50s lwt, 55s lwt, 55s hwt, 60s lwt, and 60s hwt.

Perhaps it will take me a little time to get there, but I will be _very_ surprised if I can't train myself to do a 2K trial/race just stroking along naturally at 31 spm in a 3-to-1 ratio.

31 spm in a 3-to-1 ratio is _very_ relaxed business.

In terms of R & R (rest and relaxation) between strokes, 31 spm in a 3-to-1 ratio is more like a 5K/6K rate and ratio than a 2K rate and ratio.

A Rate and Ratio that provides ample Rest and Relaxation.

Effectiveness and Efficiency.

R&R

E&E

I now row like Eskild E.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Mildly interesting analysis showing the utter fatuity of attempting to use SPI to predict OTW results in single sculls.

Here's data from the just-completed MHW 1x final from the FISA Worlds in New Zealand:

Ondrej Synek/ CZE

0500m: 2nd: 1:40.33 pace (346.56w), 39.58 spm = 8.76 spi
1000m: 1st: 1:43.56 pace (315.13w), 37.76 spm = 8.35 spi
1500m: 1st: 1:43.22 pace (318.26w), 38.68 spm = 8.23 spi
2000m: 1st: 1:40.38 pace (346.00w), 36.19 spm = 9.56 spi

2000m: 1st: 1:41.87 pace (331.50w), 38.05 spm = 8.72 spi

Mahe Drysdale/ NZL

0500m: 4th: 1:41.24 pace (337.30w), 35.37 spm = 9.54 spi
1000m: 3rd: 1:43.48 pace (315.86w), 35.27 spm = 9.00 spi
1500m: 2nd: 1:43.48 pace (315.86w), 34.17 spm = 9.24 spi
2000m: 2nd: 1:41.22 pace (337.50w), 35.58 spm = 9.50 spi

2000m: 2nd: 1:42.36 pace (326.63w), 35.10 spm = 9.31 spi

Alan Campbell/ GBR

0500m: 1st: 1:39.81 pace (352.00w), 39.02 spm = 9.02 spi
1000m: 2nd: 1:44.68 pace (305.12w), 35.96 spm = 8.49 spi
1500m: 3rd: 1:44.86 pace (303.56w), 34.72 spm = 8.74 spi
2000m: 3rd: 1:40.49 pace (345.00w), 37.28 spm = 9.25 spi

2000m: 3rd: 1:42.46 pace (326.42w), 36.75 spm = 8.88 spi

Olaf Tufte/ NOR

0500m: 6th: 1:42.61 pace (324.00w), 39.65 spm = 8.17 spi
1000m: 6th: 1:46.26 pace (291.71w), 35.29 spm = 8.27 spi
1500m: 4th: 1:44.57 pace (306.09w), 34.87 spm = 8.78 spi
2000m: 4th: 1:42.14 pace (328.46w), 37.54 spm = 8.75 spi

2000m: 4th: 1:44.40 pace (307.92w), 37.54 spm = 8.50 spi

Liang Zhang/ CHN

0500m: 5th: 1:41.57 pace (334.02w), 40.14 spm = 9.10 spi
1000m: 5th: 1:45.71 pace (296.30w), 36.74 spm = 8.28 spi
1500m: 5th: 1:46.45 pace (290.20w), 35.46 spm = 8.17 spi
2000m: 5th: 1:43.85 pace (312.50w), 37.29 spm = 7.99 spi

2000m: 5th: 1:44.40 pace (308.24w), 37.41 spm = 8.38 spi

Luka Spik/ SLO

0500m: 3rd: 1:40.68 pace (343.00w), 38.78 spm = 8.84 spi
1000m: 4th: 1:45.49 pace (298.15w), 33.50 spm = 8.90 spi
1500m: 6th: 1:50.70 pace (258.00w), 33.80 spm = 7.63 spi
2000m: 6th: 1:52.57 pace (245.36w), 35.92 spm = 6.83 spi

2000m: 6th: 1:47.36 pace (286.12w), 35.50 spm = 8.05 spi

Ratings from FISA-supplied GPS data; split paces calculated from split times; watts and spi rounded to two decimals.

Someone from Ann Arbor forgot to tell Ondrej Synek, Mahe Drysdale and Alan Campbell that the rower with the highest natural stroking power (2k spi) wins....

[ranger]

My cross-training routines--sit ups, skipping, and stepping, about an hour of each--are all in place now.

I do the sit ups and skipping before I erg.

I do the stepping after I erg.

Makes you feel great.

Warm up (sit ups and skipping).

Hard rowing (sharpening).

Warm down (stepping).

Then do it again the next day.

This year, I'll try to maintain these cross-training and sharpening routines--in full--between BIRC and WIRC.

The engines should _really_ be tuned up by then.

ranger

[ranger]

Mildly interesting analysis showing the utter fatuity of attempting to use SPI to predict OTW results in single sculls.

My claims are about age-group erging, especially in the Senior and Veteran divisions.

So, what you cite has no bearing on my claims.

Nonetheless, notice the OTW SPI's of the first four finishers you cite.

8.5-9.3 SPI

_Spectacular_ stuff.

No Senior or Veteran rower could come anywhere near this stroking power.

So SPI indeed determines the "winners," even here.

I suspect that your OTW SPI is something like 6, if that.

So, the four top finishers you cite have OTW strokes that are about 50% better than yours.

ranger