Dynamic Rower for sale - has anyone tried it?

[luckylindy]

I'm not sure if those were unbiased opinions either ... although I can see why pushing the flywheel (or the whole machine via a C2 with slides) would better replicate the feel of a boat.

[pmacaula]

Well - tried both the C2 Dynamic Erg and the OarTec Slider at HOCR. Both are definitely an improvement on 'static' ergs, but each has its own distinct feel.

The C2 feel is one of sitting (more or less) still and pushing your feet away. Opening your back/breaking your arms early does not go so well. The stroke does feel smoother than my Mod C because there is the rope from the handle (Dyneema - looks to be about 3/16") and around the first two sheaves. The line links to a chain inside the grey metal box section (bottom section under the seat) in order to drive the flywheel. It is nice to have the monitor at a constant distance.

The Slider feels 'floaty'. If you start opening early or breaking your arms early, the track frame that the seat is on starts drifting forward. The seat is soft and comfortable.

I didn't really try either for long enough (was wearing jeans & feeling gassed after racing) to get a good feel for which one was a better OTW simulation and more help with technique. The fact that I can use RowPro online for the C2 machine is a big plus, though the OarTec rep did say they have a similar bit of software of their own & they have about 3500 online users.

I need all the help I can get, so will seriously consider getting a dynamic erg this winter. Now just have to decide which one to ask Santa to bring !

Cheers. Patrick.

[Rockin Roland]

M4p

The fact that I can use RowPro online for the C2 machine is a big plus, though the OarTec rep did say they have a similar bit of software of their own & they have about 3500 online users.

I need all the help I can get, so will seriously consider getting a dynamic erg this winter. Now just have to decide which one to ask Santa to bring !

Cheers. Patrick.

You can actually have the best of both worlds without too much trouble. The Oartec Slider erg is calibrated the same as the C2 erg. Hence if you wish to run Rowpro software with an Oartec Slider all you have to do is swap the Oartec sensor cable with a C2 cable. Then just connect the cable to a PM3 or PM4 monitor and your there. Apparently the sensor cable fits straight on without any need for modifications and is easy for anyone to do. When Oartec were developing their erg they ran both cables and monitors to ensure the data was identicle.

The end result is a superior erg to either of the two in standard form. I was seriously considering doing this before deciding to go with the Rowperfect erg and may still do this when our club replaces its C2 erg fleet with Oartec Sliders.

[Dreadnought]

Has anyone compared the Dynamic C2 to it's alternatives?

One individual on another forum compared it to the Rowperfect and to the Oartec
He said it was OK but the Rowerfect was somewhat better and the Oartec was much better. These are subjective impressions, I am interested to see if others had similar impressions.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi? ... ead#unread

[luckylindy]

Does anyone else think the RowPerfect looks like a horrendous waste of money? Seriously, $3,000+ for something with limited support/availability, and no monitor? I just don't get it. Now, the Oartec is a different story ... $1200 or so seems like a pretty good deal for what you get, and it is a rather unique design. Considering all the variables, I don't see why someone would pay $1800 extra for a RP3.

The C2 dynamic looks like a great workout, but the motion doesn't seem to match rowing in a conventional scull based on the videos (I'd love to hear more from those who have tried it though). In one of the blog posts it says they originally got the idea from the sliding riggers, and abandoned it when the sliding riggers were banned from competition. Looking at videos of sliding riggers seems to support the link.

I'm guessing that if someone is ONLY looking for an erg to work on rowing technique, then the C2 Dynamic is probably not the best. But I would also guess that those looking to improve technique make up an extremely small % of erg purchasers ... this is coming from someone who simply wants an exceptional workout and has never been OTW.

[JRBJR]

We finally get three long-awaited "dynamic" ergs released within months of each other and I'm in a conumdrum. I haven't had a chance to try any of them, so I'm depending on the videos and posts circulating on the web. My static C2 erg on slides provides a great dynamic workout, but it takes up almost half our workout room and that annoys my wife. The Rowperfect3 looks interesting, but at $3000+ is simply too expensive for most American customers, myself included. And I don't yet trust the Australian or Belgian manufacturers to support their products like C2 always has. The Oartec Slider seems to be getting the most accolades for best simulating OTW rowing and at a reasonable price, but it seems to have a lot of plastic parts and then there's those support issues. Dick and Peter Dreissigacker's new video promotes the C2 dynamic erg's similar feel to the D/E on slides and OTW rowing, but the feedback I'm seeing from those who've tested it is decidedly mixed. Comments about excessive slack and "lag time" when you pull the handle, that it feels more like a leg press machine than a dynamic erg, etc. keep showing up. You almost get the feeling C2 went in the wrong direction with this design, that they could and should have built something that garners more enthusiatic responses from early users.

I do know that I won't spend a dime on a dynamic erg that I haven't been able to test out myself and won't be properly supported by the manufacturer. And it may be quite awhile before such opportunities present themselves in the SF bay area. So those slides will probably continue to take up space in our workout room for the forseeable future.

[luckylindy]

I do know that I won't spend a dime on a dynamic erg that I haven't been able to test out myself and won't be properly supported by the manufacturer.

If longterm support is a priority, I would say your only options are your current setup or a C2 Dynamic. Oartec is an upstart with a to-be-determined record and RowPerfect has a horrible track record from what I've read.

Sounds like a good excuse to take your wife on a ski vacation up to Vermont and stop by Concept2 for a trial row (assuming they have some available for people to stop by and try). If you're not an OTW rower, it doesn't really matter how the rower feels like to other people, it matters whether or not you like it (or at least that's the way I look at it).

[Dreadnought]

I am interested in hearing what the people at C2 are saying in response to the somewhat negtive reviews that the Dynamic C2 has received.

I personlly don't see how it can feel like a leg press, as some have noted, since there is no platform supporting the back.

[c2jonw]

M4p

The fact that I can use RowPro online for the C2 machine is a big plus, though the OarTec rep did say they have a similar bit of software of their own & they have about 3500 online users.

I need all the help I can get, so will seriously consider getting a dynamic erg this winter. Now just have to decide which one to ask Santa to bring !

Cheers. Patrick.

You can actually have the best of both worlds without too much trouble. The Oartec Slider erg is calibrated the same as the C2 erg. Hence if you wish to run Rowpro software with an Oartec Slider all you have to do is swap the Oartec sensor cable with a C2 cable. Then just connect the cable to a PM3 or PM4 monitor and your there. Apparently the sensor cable fits straight on without any need for modifications and is easy for anyone to do. When Oartec were developing their erg they ran both cables and monitors to ensure the data was identicle.

.

I'm not sure about the plug/cable/monitor compatability, but it should be noted that claims of the comparability of Concept2 erg scores to any other rowing machine or exercise device should be viewed with caution. There are proprietary formulas and manufacturing tolerances established by Concept2 that determine the reliability and comparability of the scoring on Concept2 Indoor Rowers. C2JonW

[Carl Watts]

You would need an identical C2 fan as well as the C2 pickup and the C2 monitor.

Unless the Oartec has made an exact copy of the Concept 2 fan it would take some engineering work to make it the same, i.e. you would need to pull the fan/flywheel out of a Model C or Model D and make it fit. The fan housing sure looks the same however.

I have to say I do like the look of that Oartec Slider !

[Tinus]

I am interested in hearing what the people at C2 are saying in response to the somewhat negtive reviews that the Dynamic C2 has received.

I personlly don't see how it can feel like a leg press, as some have noted, since there is no platform supporting the back.

- On a classical rowing machine the momentum (or kinetic energy when using different formula) of the body (and the erg in case of a dynamic erg) depends on the speed of the rower relative to the foot stretcher. Every action of a body segment is associated with a backwards momentum of the rower.

The feeling of the rower is increasing inertia while starting the drive and decreasing inertia while finishing the drive. The momentum change during the drive is closely related to the sequential feeling in the drive. Just try to row on a static erg with legs only keeping the trunk and arms fixed. At the turn, the end of the leg drive, you will notice a shock which is the trunk that wants keep on moving backwards. That's the inertia of the body. It helps the final part of the drive with the trunk and the arms. It plays, in this way, a role in the sequence legs-trunk-arms.

- On the new dynamic erg the momentum of the body is not dependant on rower motion relative to the foot stretcher but on motion of the limbs relative to each other. Action with the legs is associated with a backwards momentum of the rower. The swing of the trunk and the pull with the arms increases speed of the rest of the body in opposite direction (namely towards the stretcher).

I am not sure if the feeling would be much different as I have no experience with the new erg. But, I do know that I like to make use of the inertia effect in rowing and on the erg. On this new concept the inertia effect is completely different compared to the classic erg and to rowing. There is no build-up of kinetic energy in the first phase of the drive and there is also no deceleration in the final phase.

From a certain perspective the new erg is less dynamic because there is less use of the elasticity of the muscles during the turn points, release and catch. This may be seen as a good thing for those who want to train low impact, this may be seen as a bad thing for those who specifically would like these pronounced turn points. For practising rowing technique this is a negative point because the rowing specific relation between handle force and stretcher force (the difference between the two forces is defined by the momentum change of the body) can not be learned in this way.

This sort of loss of dynamic motion is what people might have meant when they described a feeling like a leg press. The solution would be simple: Simply increase the weight of the stretcher (although the slides must be adjusted as well because the seat would now move in the opposite direction.)

[Rockin Roland]

You would need an identical C2 fan as well as the C2 pickup and the C2 monitor.

Unless the Oartec has made an exact copy of the Concept 2 fan it would take some engineering work to make it the same, i.e. you would need to pull the fan/flywheel out of a Model C or Model D and make it fit. The fan housing sure looks the same however.

I have to say I do like the look of that Oartec Slider !

Carl,
The standard monitor on the Oartec Slider already shows identicle readings to a C2 erg. Hence a 6:30 result for 2000m should be the same for both ergs, that is once an individual has adapted to the dynamic movement. The fan size and design would only influence the drag factor(resistance). It's the flywheel/axel in the centre of the fan that needs to be of the same calibration.

I spoke to one of the partners of the business at length when I had a go on the very first Oartec Slider built. That's when I started questioning him about my ideas I had of running C2 monitors and software on their erg. He assured me that the Oartec monitor results are already calibrated to be the same as C2. They have no intention of marketing their erg as a C2 clone with interchangeable parts but if you really wanted to do it you could easily do it yourself.

And yes I agree on its appearance. It is a very smart looking erg.

[luckylindy]

I'd love to hear more from those who have tried it (other than those who have already commented here). Hundreds had to have tried it at HOTC, right?

[Rockin Roland]

I do know that I won't spend a dime on a dynamic erg that I haven't been able to test out myself and won't be properly supported by the manufacturer.

If longterm support is a priority, I would say your only options are your current setup or a C2 Dynamic. Oartec is an upstart with a to-be-determined record and RowPerfect has a horrible track record from what I've read.

If you're not an OTW rower, it doesn't really matter how the rower feels like to other people, it matters whether or not you like it (or at least that's the way I look at it).

My understanding is that Oartec is a joint venture between the original Australian designer of that erg and one of the owners of the Waterower business at Rhode Island. They are manufactured at the same factory where Waterower ergs are made for economy of scale and customer support. They have set themselves up to take on C2 in a big way and hope to intially pinch 10% of C2s sales and grow from there. Obviously they have yet to earn a customer loyalty record like C2 but it shouldn't stop anyone from buying one of their ergs.

Roweperfect on the other hand are still a very small specialist erg manufacturer with only small volume capability. However, I bought one because it had the best technical rowing feel of all the ergs on the market. I''ve had no regrets buying one as my rowing on the water has since improved immensely. They are certainly over priced but this was not a consideration for me as Australia has not experienced any economic downturn like the rest of the world. I have done over 800,000 meters on it so far with no need yet to test Rowperfect's customer service & backup. If for some reason it falls to bits, which I doubt, then I would get an Oartec Slider.

I wouldn't consider a C2 dynamic erg. Just looking at how awkward many of Europe's top scullers looked on one of the Youtube videos is enough to put me off it.

[c2jonw]

I am interested in hearing what the people at C2 are saying in response to the somewhat negtive reviews that the Dynamic C2 has received.

.

This is a posting from Concept2 in response to “reviews that the Dynamic erg prototypes have received”. Over the past year we publicly exposed various revisions of the design. The final design will be in production December. The positive thing about the past year of exposure is that we have been able to incorporate many functional improvements based on a broad base of feedback. The risk of public exposure in the prototype stage is that people might form an opinion on the prototype, which is a work in process, and not the final product. Over the past year, what we learned from negative reaction to the prototypes was a lot more valuable than positive comments. C2JonW