Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

Mike--

What in the _world_ are you doing mechanically and technically wrong to lose 50% of the easy power in your stroke?

Haven't I said before...?

My RLS beats your RWB every day these days... even on the ERG
Read my blog at concept2.co.uk for details...

The gist of it is (as I've said before):

Can you not acknowledge the following truth?

Ergers generate watts.
But the question becomes "How many of these watts are available for boat speed?"
An erger can get false positive reinforcement when he sees a great score that is not replicable OTW.
My quest is to adapt my stroke to maximize the proportion of these erg watts to harness them to move my single...

Erg scores are great, I love the challenge. But I will not mess up my chances to improve speed on the water.


But even on the erg:
What's your best 5k on the erg in the last 5 years? (IND_V only please) Mine is under 17:50 and is in the 17:50's THIS year..... You claimed to have 16:30 capability even though you are a mere 4-5 seconds faster at 2k OTErg in the same time period. Put up a score if you are so good.

More shamelesstalking about myself:
Witness my life-time PB at 1k this year: 3:40.18... What's yours again?
My stroke is getting better, not worse as I get weaker due to advancing years....
And before you go on and on with that drivel about "well, Mike has had more time in the boat than I have", remember that you claim to have SCULLED many more meters than I have in my life. My sweep rowing has been minimal since the early 1970's.

You talk about "seeing" 1:5x pace OTW. I see 1:31s.... on a calibrated top of the line device...

I erg less than 3,000k a year. You claim to erg 10,000k..
We should ask you... WTF's the matter w/ranger's training program?
But we don't need to... your results speak for themselves:
You flipped your 1x at a beginner's race on wide course. You erged one 6:41 2k and then threw in the towel on all
the summer's distance trials you were going to do...

Who in the erging community engages in RWB training besides you? If it's so fruitful for great perf's... many should.
.... No one does.. That speaks volumes...

I take your statements about others on this thread as transparent attempts to provoke. Why not consider constructive comments instead of seeminly exposing your disappointment with the stagnation of your own lack of advancement on the erg.

You remain best in the world for 2010 yet behind the WR... Congratulations for that. You should consider it an option to stop this false front "sub 6:30 2k" talk... You only confuse the newbies... Not me... I know this line of talk is a ruse.

My theory is that we are here to help each other... not saying things like you do:
"Avoid (RWB) at your peril"

RWB shows no substantial gains. You are still at virtually the same relative level as when you didn't use it: You got your WRs w/o RWB.. now you use RWB and you don't have the WR.... but, I agree(,!) you are still a great erger... yet you have no finish times or workout times OTW.... Tell us now why your gigantic volume of training does not yield OTW results... You have the entire summer off... and you don't race?

another fact... as I see it:

I began serious and comprehensive training on the erg in 2007. The result for the erg is 2 golds and a bronze at the World Championships (CRASH_B)... You won't even show up.

{rant over}

[ranger]

So you're clearly not going to show us these 8x500's you're doing in your sharpening

No, not at all.

As I get them done, I'll be happy to show them to you.

I think I will get to 1:32 @ 36 spm (12.5 SPI) for 8 x 500m (3:30 rest)--very nicely.

That will predict a 1:35/6:20 2K.

I do 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 2K - 3.

At the moment, I am distracted by other things, in particular, the improvement in my basic distance stroke, which is now 13 SPI (e.g., 1:44 @ 24 spm), if I use a sweep motion, which gives me, automatically, better length, compression, leverage, relaxation, etc.

1:44 @ 24 spm (13 SPI), just stroking along, is almost too good to be true.

It's perfect!

If I can do it for an 60min, I reach my goal for 60min (17.3K) and set the 50s hwt WR for 60min by 300m, two seconds per 500m.

1:44 is under Brian Bailey's 60s lwt WR for 5K.

No 60s lwt has ever pulled 16K for 60min.

ranger

[ranger]

Ergers generate watts.
But the question becomes "How many of these watts are available for boat speed?"

The best OTW rowers are also the best ergers--Rob Waddell, Eskild E., Joan VB, etc.

That should answer your question.

Jack Meyer is a case in point closer to home.

He has WR speed OTErg, and he is much faster than you OTW, too.

The best young lightweights are 10-15 seconds per 500m faster than you--both OTW and OTErg.

No difference.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

As you've been shown umpty times, with exceptions like Rob Waddell in his prime and Georgina Evers-Swindell in hers, the best OTW rowers generally are NOT "the best" ergers. Neither is the equation reflexive -- plenty of good ergers can't move a boat. Can you explain your total inability to grasp this simple truth?

To get back to another barrel of misrepresentations:

What is so _hugely_ fishy in all of this is not the units of measurement (SPI). They are just fine.
SPI (natural stroking power) does indeed win races. What is so hugely fishy is how someone like me--the same age, the same size, using the same level of effort, etc.--as other 60s lightweights can just pull along with 50% more wattage on each stroke. What the hell am I doing to get this done?

For starters, misrepresenting your age. You are not yet 60. Until you actually are, as determined by the papers that came with you from the pet store, comparisons with 60+ MLWs are specious.

Second, as you've been told umpty times, SPI is an artifact. It is an epiphenomenon. It is not causual. It is derived. It is derived by dividing watts by rating. Anyone who wins a race by definition rowed a faster pace than his/her competition, hence had a higher average wattage, hence increased his/her chances of rowing with a higher derived spi than his/her competitors. Moreover, unless/until they hold competitions on the basis of SPI, the fastest elapsed time gets the medal. Not the biggest SPI.

Third, you are NOT "just pull[ing] along with 50% more wattage on each stroke." You may or may not have a higher spi, but that's not the same thing. A stroke at 1:40 pace is 350 watts. 50% more wattage is 525 watts - about 1:27.4 pace. You really don't have a clue about how numbers work, do you.....

No wait. There's too much predicate in that sentence....

[whp4]

In addition to all the rowing 1:37 @ 30 spm, over the next month, I will want to get to 60'r20 @ 1:50.

ranger

What's the update, ranger?

He still wants to, and still cannot. Sort of like breaking Roy's "soft" WR

[snowleopard]

In addition to all the rowing 1:37 @ 30 spm, over the next month, I will want to get to 60'r20 @ 1:50.

ranger

What's the update, ranger?

He still wants to, and still cannot. Sort of like breaking Roy's "soft" WR

He would have to get past 20 minutes first. And he can't. Not even rowing sweep

[JimR]

He would be unhittable.

Never fear ranger, I'm sure there's a long line of folk that could hit you

And most of them would enjoy using a baseball bat I think ...

JimR

[JimR]

... At the moment, I am distracted by other things ...

I think the idea you will go to BIRC in 30 days and reset the record books for all time is funny ... but when you imply that you won't have to focus on the task at hand to do this I think that is amazing!

JimR

[mikvan52]

Ergers generate watts.
But the question becomes "How many of these watts are available for boat speed?"

The best OTW rowers are also the best ergers--Rob Waddell, Eskild E., Joan VB, etc.

That should answer your question.

Jack Meyer is a case in point closer to home.

He has WR speed OTErg, and he is much faster than you OTW, too.

Why speak of things you know so little about:
You only say such stuff to keep this ridiculous thread going...

I am faster than Jack Meyer:
If you are referring to his faster time at the HOCR... He raced in a tail wind/flat calm day. (Sunday)I raced on a head wind/ calm day (Saturday)

the conditions change because of twists and turns in the course...

I beat him every time I faced him in the same race this year (twice)

#1 Black Fly regatta
#2 Green Mountain Head

You know this already. Why are you being such a troll?
Maybe it's because trolls seek "jerk" status.... ???

I count Jack Meyer as a friend. I also admire his record which is longer and better than mine.... He is 61... I am 58...
I hope to be as fast as he is today... in 2013, when I turn 61...
But: He is not faster than me in 2010.. The season is now over as far as our contests go. I'm at 2 wins.. zero losses...

I admire Jack's sculling so much that I predicted he would win his division at the HOCR (see rowingillustrated.com).
I also thought both he and Anderson would beat Dietz..
How was I so sure (?)... I raced both of them this year and last. I did not beat Meyer last year. I beat Dietz both years and was seeded right behind him at Green Mountain...
All this experience gave me a good vantage point to have an informed opinion.

Perhaps you'd like to share your experiences on the water that give you an informed opinion? Swimming to shore doesn't count

[ranger]

Oh, yes, and Georgina Evers-Swindell.

Can that lady ever haul a handle on an erg!

I watched her, close up.

If you could erg like that, Mike, you wouldn't be struggling to pull 7:00 for 2K.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Oh, yes, and Georgina Evers-Swindell.

Can that lady haul a handle on an erg!

I watched her, close up.

If you could erg like that, Mike, you wouldn't be struggling to pull 7:00 for 2K.

ranger

keep it up ranger... it's very cute...
your karmic quotient is now below zero...

what a very sad man you must be... all alone in your opinions with no hope of redemption.

If it's so hard for me to row a 7:00 2k how is it that I can do two of them with an 8' rest in between..?
Yet another case of a workout you cannot replicate...

[jliddil]

Why speak of things you know so little about:
You only say such stuff to keep this ridiculous thread going...

You know this already. Why are you being such a troll?
Maybe it's because trolls seek "jerk" status.... ???

What? You've managed to distill down years of stuff to a few simple words. I can't believe it took so long to come to this conclusion.

And this thread does oh so much good for C2's reputation and the impression folks new to the board have of this place. And they are getting ready to roll out a new machine, attracting new customers to get "advice".

[mikvan52]

Why speak of things you know so little about:
You only say such stuff to keep this ridiculous thread going...

You know this already. Why are you being such a troll?
Maybe it's because trolls seek "jerk" status.... ???

I can't believe it took so long to come to this conclusion.

Excellent Point!

It remains hard for me to believe that Richard Cureton is not permanently blocked from posting for his form of dishonest posting and poor people skills.
This thread is most assuredly off-topic as it has nothing to do with training...

It's just fun for some of us and confusing for others.

[mrfit]

Ranger have you fixed your rear derailleur?

Keep your local bike shop in business and drop it off for them to tune it up.

At 19mph max gear (53x12) is a diesel-like 56 rpm. I think you'll find more power with more revs.

[PaulH]

In addition to all the rowing 1:37 @ 30 spm, over the next month, I will want to get to 60'r20 @ 1:50.

ranger

What's the update, ranger?

He still wants to, and still cannot. Sort of like breaking Roy's "soft" WR

Indeed - I'm not asking if he's done the piece, I'm asking if he's made that tricky tense transition from "will want" to "now actually want".