Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

Works for me....

What browser do you use? Safari is my default browser, so I thought that it might be a Mac thing, but FireFox didn't do any better.

Bob S.

Look for the auto-load option at the bottom of the link... It installs the necessary software..
I just watched half of the competitors go by CBC... This is a valuable learning tool Thanks HOCR!

[JimR]

... There are no problems here at all.

I am not sure what other distance trials I will get done before BIRC ...

I would suggest you are ignoring the biggest problem you have ... BIRC is less than 30 days away and you have never done anything in 30 days or less!

Ever

JimR

[Bob S.]

Look for the auto-load option at the bottom of the link... It installs the necessary software..
I just watched half of the competitors go by CBC... This is a valuable learning tool Thanks HOCR!

Worked fine! I guess that I should always read the fine print. Thanks, Mike. I take back what I said about the HOCR site (but not what I said about the dinosaurs at FISA).

Bob S.

[rjw]

Now try to row a 10k as hard as you can. Chances are you're going to rate something more like 26 spm

Yea, close.

But I think I would prefer 27 spm.

At 12.5 SPI, that's 1:41.3 for 10K.

Nice!

5 x 2K at 6:45--no rest.

That predicts a 6:16 2K--at least.

ranger

Rich, you talk a good story but alas, when BIRC is all said and done, you will be using the "I didn't sharpen line".

...and wasn't that a top shelf 8 x 500 from Nav?

[PaulH]

Rich, you talk a good story but alas, when BIRC is all said and done, you will be using the "I didn't sharpen line".

Oh yea of little faith - in actual fact ranger will be finishing up his sharpening in the next day or two, if he hasn't already. So by the end of the week he'll be able to row at least close to 6:20 at any point.

[ranger]

For those interested in rowing 6:20, such as Nav, the best daily rowing to do, by far, is just an hour or two, with a target of 1:45 @ 24 spm (12.5 SPI), pushing your heart rate, as I now want to do OTBike, up toward 170 bpm.

No need to row the whole session 1:45 @ 24 spm (12.5 SPI).

Negative-splitting and other kinds of natural working up to and away from this pace and rate target is fine, if not necessary.

Biological and psychological systems are not machines. They have their own peculiarities that need to be attended to.

The basic training regimen, though, would be just rowing along at 24 spm for most of the time, whatever that time might be, and let your natural stroking power (of 12.5 SPI) take care of the rest, rowing efficiently and effectively, with a high heart rate, to keep your cardiovascular system tuned, but a heart rate that is both steady state and under your anaerobic threshold, so that you are comfortable, relaxed, and ready for other things when you finish the session, both for cross-training the same day, and for a similar bout of rowing and cross-training the next day.

Great stuff.

If you can do this, for the _vast_ majority of your sessions throughout the year, there is no need for either slogging at low rates (16-20 spm) or sprinting at high rates (30-36 spm).

Match this hour or two at top-end UT1, rowing well (12.5 SPI) at low drag (120 df.), with a similar bout of cross-training at a more modest HR, perhaps low UT1 or UT2, as a recovery and additional fitness session, and the training, IMHO, is perfect.

Working in this way from day to day, you put in a _huge_ quantity of quality work OTErg and elsewhere, staying both aerobically and technically tuned, happy and healthy, with your fitness at sky-high levels, ready, at a drop of the hat, to train up your anaerobic capacities with a little speed work if you want to race.

As he has expressed many times, a stiff 60min row, free rate, is Eskild E.'s favorite session OTErg.

When I first took up rowing, that's all I did, 60min rows, one or two a day, for a couple of years.

When I finally sharpened and raced, I found that I was four seconds under the 50s lwt WR for 2K, even though I didn't have any idea how row and therefore was just yanking the chain, with no efficiency and effectiveness whatsoever, at max drag.

When I finally work back into training this way again, now that I am rowing well (12.5 SPI) at low drag (120 df.), I think I will find, ten years later, that I am now 20-30 seconds under the WR OTErg for my age and weight.

This improvement, relative to those my own age and weight, won't have anything to do with fitness or training. Give or take a bit here and there, my fitness and training will be the same now as they were a decade ago.

The improvement will just be technical.

I now know how to row--and row well.

So, relative to a decade ago, given the same effort, I go faster, because I am mechanically/technically more effective and efficient.

Rowing poorly at max drag, after I was warmed up, I used to row about 1:52 @ 25 spm (10 SPI) in my daily UT1 60-120min rows.

The goal now is to do these rows 1:45 @ 24 spm (12.5 SPI).

ranger

[ranger]

I take a little bit of what I just wrote back.

I am not rowing 1:45 @ 24 spm (12.5 SPI).

With my sweep stroke taking care of all of my technical back-sliding, just naturally, and therefore freeing my mind up to just relax and work hard, I am now rowing flat out perfectly, 1:44 @ 24 spm (13 SPI), with my HR steady state well below my anaerobic threshold.

So, now, I just need to keep doing it.

_Hugely_ relaxing stroke, given the low drag and snappy drive, which generates power with length, timing, and effective leverage rather than strength.

The ratio is gigantic, given my short legs and the 13 SPI.

I suspect the drive is only .5 seconds.

With a stroke cycle of 2.5 seconds, that means that the recovery is a full 2 seconds.

4-to-1 ratio



Yikes.

I'll have to take a lunch box with me when I erg so that I can eat a few sandwiches and drink some beer between each stroke, just to keep the fire stoked and the engine humming, and to keep busy while I am drifting around on the slide waiting to do some work on the next drive.



Astonishingly, even though I am only rating 24 spm, and who knows, will perhaps train myself to do this for a FM (24 spm is a very reasonable FM rate, especially if the recovery on your stroke is a full two seconds), 1:44/6:56 is two seconds per 500m faster than the hammer row in the 60s lwt race at WIRC 2010, which was won in 1:46/7:04.

At the moment, no 60s lwt can row 1:44/6:56 for 2K.

This is also too fast as a 2K race pace for all but a couple 55s lwts.

RANKING RESULTS 2010
Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | 2010 Season

You are number 1 of 105

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6 IND_V
3 Jonathan Rich 56 Winter Park FL USA 6:52.3 RACE
4 Eric Winterbottom 58 Bodytalk GBR 7:01.9 RACE
5 Gary Passler 55 amesbury ma USA 7:05.0 RACE
6 David Sutkowy 56 manlius NY USA 7:05.4 RACE
6 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
8 John Busk 56 Slangerup DEN 7:07.6 IND
9 Ernest Cook 55 Brookline MA USA 7:08.3 RACE
10 Daniel Devez 56 Port-Marly Rc FRA 7:08.5 RACE

1:44/6:56 for 2K is the 60s lwt American record.

Top-end UT1 is 2K + 10.



ranger

[ranger]

Because they stroke so weakly (9 SPI), most 60s lwts are at race rate, 34 spm, when they are pulling 1:44 pace.

My stroke is now almost 50% stronger than that.

At 34 spm, the stroke cycle is only 1.76 seconds long, not 2.5 seconds long, as it is at 24 spm.

And pulling only 9 SPI, the drive is much more leisurely, 50% longer, .75 seconds, vs. .5 seconds.

That means that most 60s lwts are in about a 1.3-to-1 ratio when they are pulling 1:44 @ 34 spm.

The recovery is only one second.

When I am pulling 1:44, my ratio is 4-to-1.

My recovery is two seconds, twice as long as that.



No wonder most 60s lwts find 1:44 @ 34 spm (9 SPI) hard to do, and when called upon, can only do it for 2K and then collapse in a heap, blue in the face and exhausted.

ranger

[ginster]

I do love the fact that you believe that "technical changes/efficiency improvements" can give you 20% more power output for the same effort, over a 2k.

[mikvan52]

Biological and psychological systems are not machines. They have their own peculiarities that need to be attended to.

Does he mean "people"

I like the "They" too...
Might I suggest a rewrite so as to not sound like HAL the computer, or a [Bot] with a voice?

RIch: Your assignment for your next post is to write yet another meaningless post that takes up a full page on this thread...

[mikvan52]

Edited to remove the self-adulating ranger-esque time-warp.
ranger is really #2 ...not numero uno

RANKING RESULTS 2006 though 2010
| 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | 2006 - 2010 Seasons

ranger is number 2 of 105

1 Roy Brook 55 GBR 6:38.1 2006 Indoor rowing race
2 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 Racing in the Hinterland
3 Michael van Beuren 55 USA 6:45.1 Crash-B 2008

The margin between Roy and ranger is about the same as between ranger and me...

[JimR]

Ranger ...

Perhaps between now and BIRC if you would umm, well maybe you could ah or if you were to do a ... well, anyway ... continue on with the current training plan which I think I summed up fairly well just now.

I do like the sweep stroke twist ... an amazing plot change ... jumping the shark it seems.

JimR

[ranger]

My three even ratios--4-to-1, 3-to-1, 2-to-1, now come at 24 spm, 30 spm, and 40 spm.

No reason to row at other rates, at least for a while.

Because of their regular rhythm, it is easiest for me to lock into these even ratios.

Paces for the three ratios, at 13 SPI, are 1:44, 1:37 and 1:27.

I now have my rates and paces up nicely.

I'll now have no problem sharpening for the next six four months if my slowest pace is 1:44.

ranger

[ranger]

[removed'

[ranger]

I do like the sweep stroke twist ... an amazing plot change ...

JimR

Naw.

My sweep stroke just keeps me rowing well, automatically, so that I don't backslide into bad habits.

Relaxing stuff.

ranger