Ranger's training thread

[aharmer]

Okay, I guess we'll just have to wait for three weeks to see. Here's another challenge for you, and it should be easy because this would be nothing more than your warmup.

I just finished my erg session for the day. 60 minutes, 15,310m, r20. Why don't you warmup with that exact piece tomorrow, set the intervals at 6 minutes and wear the HRM so we can see how low and level your HR is all the way through the piece?

You could silence every critic by doing nothing more than recording and posting the warmup to your real workouts for the day. Why don't you also predict tonight what your HR will be throughout that session.

Do you have a hard time waiting in line to go to the bathroom when you are public toilets?

Do you try to butt up in line?

Do you get so antsy that you pee your pants?

ranger

That's a good one, I'm sure others had a good laugh. [Sound of crickets] Maybe you should leave the comedy to somebody else and just continue lying about your erging.

[mrfit]

Nice second hour on my Kurt Kinetic at 19 MPH, HR 141 bpm.

ranger

Curious. Is that average speed (e.g., you covered 19 miles in one hour) and avg HR (as reported by the Suunto) or are you just reporting "what I see when I'm riding along" (more or less like the what you see in my graphs once my workout is out of the warm up phase).

[whp4]

1:58 @ 20 spm for an hour?

Pretty ruinous stuff, if you are trying to pull 12.5 SPI for 2K in a month or so.

I'm not sure that I can take a stroke that weak.

Sure you can. Everytime you post a clip of your new, improved stroke, few of the strokes are even that powerful, judging from elapsed time and distance.

[ranger]

Nice second hour on my Kurt Kinetic at 19 MPH, HR 141 bpm.

ranger

Curious. Is that average speed (e.g., you covered 19 miles in one hour) and avg HR (as reported by the Suunto) or are you just reporting "what I see when I'm riding along" (more or less like the what you see in my graphs once my workout is out of the warm up phase).

141 bpm is a max HR for this ride.

I get there, oh, I don't know, about half way through the ride, when I am fully warmed up.

Then my HR rides pretty level, sometimes falling a bit.

Yea, I ride right at 19 MPH, steady.

I guess it is just my standard cadence.

ranger

[ranger]

He cannot row 20 minutes at 1:49.0 pace

Actually, Carl, think I'll get to 1:40 for 6K.

Yep.

That's 20min.

In 2003, rowing badly (10.5 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.), I got to 1:42 for 4K, 1:43 for 5K, 1:44 for 6K, and 1:45 for 9K.

I am quite a bit better than that now.

I now row well (12.5 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

ranger

[bellboy]

He cannot row 20 minutes at 1:49.0 pace

Actually, Carl, think I'll get to 1:40 for 6K.

Yep.

That's 20min.

In 2003, rowing badly (10.5 SPI) at max drag (200+ df.), I got to 1:42 for 4K, 1:43 for 5K, 1:44 for 6K, and 1:45 for 9K.

I am quite a bit better than that now.

I now row well (12.5 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

ranger

No you wont.

[KevJGK]

Hi Rich

I was going through the old BIRC results earlier this evening, recording the medal times into a spreadsheet to get my head around my own goals.

As I was typing, changing pages, typing some more I got pretty nonchalant about keying those amazing times when all of a sudden a result would hit me that stood out even from the others! When I checked it was usually an Andy Ripley time but yours from 2003 had a similar effect.

You certainly raised the bar back then and nothing can take that away from you.

Cheers,

[NavigationHazard]

Of course the standing WR for 50-59 MHWs for 6k is 20:16.9, by Steve Krum, who'd just turned 50 at the time and was in 6:19 form over 2k. That's 1:41.4 pace for the 6k. True, Kent Timm did post a 20:00.0 time in 2009 at the age of 50, as a HW. C2 have not recognized this as a record, as it was unverified. FWIW Kent Timm's record of record times in the 40s LWs resembles Rod Freed's in the 50s LWs....

In any case, the Queen's handbag is in no danger here.

[ranger]

As I was typing, changing pages, typing some more I got pretty nonchalant about keying those amazing times when all of a sudden a result would hit me that stood out even from the others! When I checked it was usually an Andy Ripley time but yours from 2003 had a similar effect.

You certainly raised the bar back then and nothing can take that away from you.

That's the last time I sharpened hard for racing, albeit rowing poorly (10.5 SPI), hauling anchor at max drag (200+ df.?).

After seven years of working on technique and stroking power, including learning to row OTW, I am sharpening again, this time, rowing well (12.5 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

BTW, before BIRC 2003 in November, my two previous rows were a USIRT trial in October (6:29) and WIRC 2003 in February (6:30).

All three of these rows were done with flat splits in WR time.

It appears that, in recent times, at least, no male, 40-70, has ever had even two WR rows in the same age and weight division, much less three, much less consecutively, as I did these three rows in 2003.

At WIRC 2003, I won the heavyweight silver, rowing as a lightweight.

The only 50s rower in either weight division who could outrow me was Tore Foss.

At both WIRC 2003 and BIRC 2003, I weighed in at 162 lbs.

Tore is what, 6'6", 240 lbs.?

ranger

[ranger]

As I have mentioned, I certainly need to do a lot of flat out sprinting at 36 spm in order to get fully prepared to race.

But probably the best rate and pace for me to row at as much as possible over the next six months is 1:37 @ 31 spm, which is 10 MPS, my natural stroking power (12.5 SPI), and my pb 2K race pace (1:37).

That's a _very_ nice convergence of ratio, technique, and pace.

Long bouts of 500s might be a good place to start.

Then I should lengthen these to 1Ks.

Then I should try at least one 2K trial to make sure I have it nailed.

Then I could lift the rate to 36 spm and do that sprinting that I need to do to get fully prepared to race.

120 df.

ranger

[ranger]

]As I was typing, changing pages, typing some more I got pretty nonchalant about keying those amazing times when all of a sudden a result would hit me that stood out even from the others! When I checked it was usually an Andy Ripley time but yours from 2003 had a similar effect.

You certainly raised the bar back then and nothing can take that away from you.

If you are interested in my BIRC times, you might also flag the gold 2006 lwt 55-59 row in your table of race times.

That's also me.

In 2006, I was still in the throes of working on technique rather than preparing to race, and was still rowing pretty poorly, at high drag, and somewhat overweight, too (which made it so that I had to dehydrate and exhaust myself pretty badly in order to make weight before that race); so this 2006 row was not nearly as good as my row in 2003.

Nonetheless, that 2006 row still stands as the lwt 55-59 BIRC championship record, as you can see by comparing it with its surrounding times.

At weight and fully prepared to row, at BIRC 2006, I think I would have substantially improved on the 6:29.7 that I had just pulled six months before in Baltimore as a heavyweight qualifying for WIRC.

6:24?

The gap in years between my 2003 row and this 2006 row is just about the gap in years between that 2006 row and BIRC 2010, which is coming up next month.

At weight and fully prepared to race, my goal now is to lower my own 55s lwt BIRC championship record to 6:20.

That would be eight seconds better than my 2003 row.

At BIRC, no lightweight beyond their 30s has ever pulled 6:20.

That includes the present 40s lwt WR-holder, who also rowed at BIRC back near the turn of the century.

ranger

[KevJGK]

At BIRC, no lightweight beyond their 30s has ever pulled 6:20.

That includes the present 40s lwt WR-holder, who also rowed at BIRC back near the turn of the century.

Fair enough but the person you refer to did set the amazing 40s lwt WR of 6:18.2 in 2002.

[snowleopard]

That's also me.

And you alone. When the competition turned up in the same year you were beaten into fourth place. Another ranger triumph

[ranger]

Yea.

For 20 x 500m, perhaps even for 40 x 500m, 1:35 @ 33 spm (12.5 SPI) is going to be just fine.

_Very_ relaxed stuff.

Well over a 2-to-1 ratio, perhaps as high as 2.5-to-1.

Once I get those 500s done, then all I need to 4 x 1K, 1:35 @ 33 spm, i.e., a few 1Ks at the same rate and pace, and I am ready to row 6:20 for 2K at BIRC 2010.

ranger

[ranger]

At BIRC, no lightweight beyond their 30s has ever pulled 6:20.

That includes the present 40s lwt WR-holder, who also rowed at BIRC back near the turn of the century.

Fair enough but the person you refer to did set the amazing 40s lwt WR of 6:18.2 in 2002.

Sure.

But as an experienced rower and trainer, who had been rowing for 25 years, and had been working on stroking power for five years, double sessions, 20K-30K day, rarely missing a day, following the Wolverine Plan.

So, ever after that 6:18, he has just gotten worse--precipitously.

First, he couldn't row as fast. Then, he couldn't win. Then, he couldn't even qualify for WIRC. Now, as far as I know, he doesn't race at all.

The last time out, he pulled 6:36--at 45 years old.

That is a normal arc for most Senior and Veteran WR-holders and/or hammers.

Tore Foss pulled 6:11 in 2003, when he was 50. He now pulls over 6:30, a _huge_ 20-second decline over 2K in just seven years, almost three seconds per year.

2010 C.R.A.S.H.-B. Sprints World Indoor Rowing Championships

Event: Veteran Men (Age 55-59)

1 Krum Steve Spectrum Clubs 06:25.0 55
2 LaForme Mel Cambridge Rowing Club 06:28.4 57
3 Updegrave Walter Palm Beach Rowing Association 06:30.1 57
4 Foss Tore Skullerud Sport Senter Norway 06:31.5 57
5 O'Toole Larry Gentle Giant Rowing 06:34.7 59
6 Roedde Steve Island Rowing Club 06:43.1 55
7 Travers Richie Unaffiliated 06:48.3 56
8 Dreissigacker Peter Concept2 06:48.9 58

Rocket Roy seems to be following the same arc.

My 6:28 at 52, as a complete novice, with no rowing background or association with the sport whatsoever, and therefore rowing poorly at max drag, was entirely comparable to Mike C.'s 6:18 at 40.

Mike C. will not row 6:28 when he is 52, nowhere near.

And then there is this:

I am now positioning myself to row 6:16 at 60, faster than Mike C. rowed when he was 40.

I am no longer a novice.

I now row well (12.5 SPI) at low drag (120 df.).

In terms of training and experience, I am now much more comparable to where Mike C. was in 2002, when he pulled 6:18 than I was back in 2002, when I raced for the first time.

So, let's see what happens now, when I race, fully prepared, rowing well at low drag at BIRC 2010.

I am happy to have Mike C. come over to BIRC and show us what he can do now that he is approaching 50.

At BIRC 2010, I will be two months shy of 60, and I think I would now outrow Mike over 2K by 20 seconds, even though he is over ten years younger than I am.

ranger